Hello all,

I'm new to making espresso coffee so I've been reading tutorials and doing some experimentation but found myself a bit stuck. My objective at this stage is only to produce something drinkable - hopefully this bar is not set too high!

I've managed to set the grind so that the machine pours around 60ml in 25-30 seconds using a full basket. The problem I find is that the resulting coffee is very sour. I've tried it with more than one kind of coffee, even pre-ground 'practice' coffee and it's always the same.

The recommendation for this issue on the Espresso 101 page is to make the grind finer with the same dose, however won't this slow the flow and cause too little coffee to be extracted? In any case I've tried it, got about 2/3rds of the volume of coffee in 30 seconds and the taste was similar.

Elsewhere I see advice to dump the first few seconds of the pour, to lose the most acidic part of the shot. This actually improves the taste but I suspect there is likely to be a better way.

My understanding is very limited, so if you could just point me in the right direction I would be very grateful. Thanks

You need to make the grind coarser OR allow the shot to go for longer. Keep in mind that a single second makes a big difference. I am posting a chart below. Horizontally, on the left is sour and the right is bitter, and you want to hit that sweet spot in the middle with respect to the best TDS% for whatever coffee you are using today.

1. try to just let the shot go a bit longer first (try 5 seconds, then 3, then whatever you think will work).
2. consider adjusting the grind slightly coarser. Repeat until flavor is balanced.

My recommendation is to grind finer and dose lower. This creates higher extraction levels and adds caramels and body to the shot.

You are right about just grinding finer. The combination of grind and dose is to be considered a single variable, since once you set the first, the second one is fixed in order to get the right flow.

Another variable you can try is temperature. Many entry level machines run on the cool side. You can goose them by turning on the steam setting for a 10 seconds or so, then running the shot while leaving the switch in the steam setting. This will force the heater to stay on during the shot. In general, too cool => too sour; and too hot => too bitter.

Finally, you can just change either the dose or grind to get a more slowly or quickly flowing shot. A slower, tighter shot tends to taste more bitter, while a faster flowing one tends to taste more sour.

As far as I can tell, for most setups, changing temperature is more reliable for manipulating the bitter/sour balance than changing the flow. Changing dose/grind together is the only reliable way of manipulating extraction, i.e. the mellow/aggressive balance.

(the "brewing control chart" is for brewing not espresso. Moreover, beverage strength i.e., the TDS dimension on the chart, has no correlation to taste. Instead, it defines the beverage type. The illustrated 17:1 is for US brews. The 12:1 to 8:1 range is for European and demitasse brews, and the 2: to 1:1 range is for espresso)

Can you post a video?

Since you are new, the best thing you can do to save money in the long run is to waste some in the short term. get a couple of pounds of one quality coffee for espresso. Have a basket and glass of good water handy. You will also need an accurate gram scale that has a .1 gram resolution.

Pick a coarse(r) grind, then pull successive shots through a range of doses. Sip, swallow, then rinse mouth with water. TAKE NOTES as you go. Since we do not know the machine you are using we cannot recommend a dose range, so you are on your own there.
- Now move the grind one step finer and repeat.
- Repeat above step, and continue doing so until you get to a point of VERY slow extraction.
- How many pulls, will that take? Can't say.

But you will learn a lot about how dose and grind interact. Once you gain a consistency and apply what you learn in the above exercises you will eventually be able to tell to some extent what the espresso will taste like just from watching the extraction.

Now you will have narrowed down a range of parameters that gives you a foundation. With that in hand, you can now play with temperature variables. Since we do not know what machine you have it is impossible to tell you how to do that if it is even possible. For all we know you machine is junk and any efforts will be a waste including the water you are feeding it as well as the wear and tear on my keyboard. If you list your grinder and your espresso machine we could possibly help further... or not at all if they are a lost cause. "Entry level" to some is "Doorstop" to others.

Ok, I've read these post from a couple of the best sources of info on this site, so pay attention. However, I haven't seen anyone ask about the beans you are using. Are you making the same mistake I did when I first got into this, thinking I could just go buy me some whole beans that said espresso on them and start brewing espressos? If you did, it ain't gonna work. When Randy mentioned quality espresso beans, those have to be fresh roasted by you or a place that roast and ships them to you the same day. Then they need to rest about three days before you use them, and once they get over three weeks old, make coffee out of them but don't try to make espresso. You will NEVER get a bean you buy out of some store's bin or bag off the shelf to make anything but sour, light cream colored junk. Also, not many good machines are going to work with pre ground. I know I bought some Illy in a can once when I first started, to keep from throw $15 in the trash, we used it for coffee. I know you listed yours as entry level and maybe some of the lower pressure units might can use the pre ground but I don't think any of them will use old beans.

Thank you all for taking the time to respond. I've updated my profile with the machines I am using, they are probably doorstops to most people here however my aspirations are only really for something drinkable.

I went and got 1kg of beans, I am going to experiment with the variables you all mentioned and report back with the results.

Fran: sorry, I'm not well set up to take a video
BenKeith I think the beans are likely to be OK, they are from a local roaster and not from a supermarket bin.

It's a doorstop machine with a restrictor basket. So grind fine enough so the flow is slow; let the machine warm up on the brew switch, but switch to steam before you make the shot. Don't use any espresso blends that aren't chocolate brown or darker and cheap. Anything lighter will be undrinkable, and anything more expensive irrelevant, on gear like this.

Your best use of this machine is to flog it. Buy a french press or bialetti with the proceeds; then you'll be able to brew high quality coffee as opposed to just choking down overroasted crap.

Hey Tim. I'm an Aucklander myself

I started with a Breville Cafe Roma. Not sure about your Sunbeam but if it's thermoblock it's basically always going to run too cool.

My Breville shots would always be sour.

Sour almost always means "under-extracted."

The common techniques for more complete and efficient extraction are finer grind, lower dose and hotter brewing temp. Another Jim's already covered those with specific recommendations. +1 to each of his posts.

Subtotal: +2.

There's more information on over and under extraction in various H-B Faqs as well as the lead sticky in the Tips and Techniques section.

I understand the allure of espresso on a budget, but your equipment is so bad that any good shot would come far more by luck than design. As Jim said, pawn your Sunbeams, use the proceeds to buy a gun, hold up a bank, and use the ill-gotten gains to buy a good press and brew grinder.

Bottom Line: +3.

Rich