newbie breakthrough: measuring extraction by weight
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I have been making espresso at home since I bought my Silvia and Rocky for a TOTAL of $600 in 2000. Yes I still have the original receipt from 1st-line I have always thought it tasted pretty good - much better that the EspressoPoint pod and Miele automatic machines in my office, and better than Starbucks and Au Bon Pain. But there was always a bitter edge no matter what I did with the dose and grind. Lately I have gotten serious about making better espresso and bought a naked portafilter (PF), 0.1g scale, and a used Mazzer Super Jolly (SJ). I weighed the dose (previously I would eyeball the output from the Rocky in the PF), timed the shot, and temp surfed. The taste got better and more consistent shot to shot but i still couldn't shake that bitter edge.
Yesterday I started weighing the output, having spent time reading the thread about extraction ratios by weight. Guess what I found? I was putting 18g into a HQ basket and extracting 60g of espresso!! It didn't look like a lot in my rattleware shot glass but was way over the 50% target for espresso. Plus I was getting that 60g in 26 - 28 sec.
So I tweaked the grind and stopped extraction in 27s with output of 35g for 18g coffee. Wow, what a difference - the bitterness was gone and the shot tasted much, much better, almost creamy. As another note - I used to always have soggy pucks that would break up when I banged the PF on the knock box. Now my pucks are dry and solid and pop out whole. All-up a material change in taste and puck.
I am now ready for the arrival of the used VBM DD that is coming next week. The only problem is that by volume I am getting 1.25 ounces vs 2.25 ounces so I need to make more shots to get the caffeine intake to which I am accustomed. But overall each shot tastes better by a wide margin!!
I am posting this for other newbies - if you just can't figure out what is going on, I strongly recommend weighing the input and the output, doing Weiss Distribution Technique (WDT), using a naked PF and timing the shot. With that set of steps falling in the range of good values, I think it would be hard to make a bad shot given my experience.
It seems super anal to me to go that far, but now that I am dialed in and getting great results (I pretty much just use one brand of beans and roast: Klatch Belle), I can set up the Gralab timer on the grinder to fix dosage and brew by output volume in the shotglass and not have to get to that level of detail on each shot. Plus with DD < no temp surf. Just grind, tamp, brew, drink Heck, I may even go back to the spouted PF and just enjoy
Thanks to all the experts posting on this forum - your contributions have made a real impact on my ability to make espresso.
Yesterday I started weighing the output, having spent time reading the thread about extraction ratios by weight. Guess what I found? I was putting 18g into a HQ basket and extracting 60g of espresso!! It didn't look like a lot in my rattleware shot glass but was way over the 50% target for espresso. Plus I was getting that 60g in 26 - 28 sec.
So I tweaked the grind and stopped extraction in 27s with output of 35g for 18g coffee. Wow, what a difference - the bitterness was gone and the shot tasted much, much better, almost creamy. As another note - I used to always have soggy pucks that would break up when I banged the PF on the knock box. Now my pucks are dry and solid and pop out whole. All-up a material change in taste and puck.
I am now ready for the arrival of the used VBM DD that is coming next week. The only problem is that by volume I am getting 1.25 ounces vs 2.25 ounces so I need to make more shots to get the caffeine intake to which I am accustomed. But overall each shot tastes better by a wide margin!!
I am posting this for other newbies - if you just can't figure out what is going on, I strongly recommend weighing the input and the output, doing Weiss Distribution Technique (WDT), using a naked PF and timing the shot. With that set of steps falling in the range of good values, I think it would be hard to make a bad shot given my experience.
It seems super anal to me to go that far, but now that I am dialed in and getting great results (I pretty much just use one brand of beans and roast: Klatch Belle), I can set up the Gralab timer on the grinder to fix dosage and brew by output volume in the shotglass and not have to get to that level of detail on each shot. Plus with DD < no temp surf. Just grind, tamp, brew, drink Heck, I may even go back to the spouted PF and just enjoy
Thanks to all the experts posting on this forum - your contributions have made a real impact on my ability to make espresso.
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David, your posted numbers for shot volume and weight are disturbing.dgkula wrote:I was putting 18g into a HQ basket and extracting 60g of espresso!!
...
So I tweaked the grind and stopped extraction in 27s with output of 35g for 18g coffee.
...
The only problem is that by volume I am getting 1.25 ounces vs 2.25 ounces so I need to make more shots to get the caffeine intake to which I am accustomed.
1.25 fl oz (37.0 ml) => 35 g
2.25 fl oz (66.5 ml) => 60 g
In other words, your shots have approximately the density of water. This is bad news. You should be pulling shots that are pure crema, which has about half the density of water. These days I typically extract ~45ml (~1.5oz) from 15g coffee. The resulting shot weight is ~22.5g, for a brew ratio of ~67%.
Caffeine is highly soluble in hot water, so I doubt that increasing the brew ratio from 30% (lungo) to 50% (normale) has much impact on your caffeine intake. But it will have a huge impact on taste and mouthfeel.
Old pic, but this should give you some idea of what crema looks like.
John
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Thanks for the feedback John. In the pic that you posted, does the crema settle, kind of how a Guinness settles? The cream in my shots always settles some and I let the shot sit and crema settle while I clean up, i.e. knock the puck, rinse the PF, flush the brewhead, wipe up stray grinds from the grinders. My volume measurements were not as precise as my weights so I will double check. There is also the possibility that I am not including the cream in the volume. I will watch this tomorrow and see the result.
Attached is a photo of a shot before I reduced the volume output. This would probably be what I would call 1.75 ounces and the crema had settled.
Thx, David
Attached is a photo of a shot before I reduced the volume output. This would probably be what I would call 1.75 ounces and the crema had settled.
Thx, David
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Of course the crema dissipates over time. I've never compared this directly to Guinness, and I don't know whether the "Guinness effect" description is accurate. Heck, people like to talk about how espresso pours "like honey", which is simply ridiculous.
Regardless: I recommend that you
1) pay attention to shot weight, not volume
2) target a brew ratio of 50% or greater (67% is my new normale)
3) enjoy the shot immediately, and do your cleanup afterwards
Regardless: I recommend that you
1) pay attention to shot weight, not volume
2) target a brew ratio of 50% or greater (67% is my new normale)
3) enjoy the shot immediately, and do your cleanup afterwards
John
- shawndo
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Are you saying this is an example of a shot that weighed 60 grams? You did tare the scale before pulling the shot, right? i.e. this isn't including the weight of the glass?
Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra
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60 grams makes sense. 1 fl oz = 30 ml = 30 grams (for water). This looks like it would eventually settle to ~2 fl oz.shawndo wrote:Are you saying this is an example of a shot that weighed 60 grams?
John
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Yes. This was before I was weighing output. This would have been in the 60+ range as I was pretty consistent with what I was putting out. Now I am at 34g out with similar cream after settling.
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I've been at this a short while and my eyes would glaze over at mention or "ristretto," "brew ratio," and the like. But when OP mentioned "bitter edge" I perked up.
Time to put the scale on the Silvano.........
Time to put the scale on the Silvano.........
- RapidCoffee
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FWIW, I weigh all my coffee doses. But I seldom weigh the extracted shot, unless I'm testing a coffee. Once you get a routine down, it's really not necessary. As Jim Schulman once pointed out (I'm paraphrasing): a few tenths of a gram difference in dose has a larger impact than several grams difference in the extraction.
John
- Maxwell Mooney
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To be fair, James Hoffman has a slightly differing opinion (that probably comes as no surprise).
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