Hi,
This is my first post to this list. I just bought a Quick Mill Andreja Premium after owning a Silvia. The Silvia made great micro foam but I have gone through a gallon of whole milk and still don't have it down with the Andreja. What is the trick with this machine? It has tons of steam!
I put the SS milk container in the freezer to cool it down, I use cold milk and I stretch the milk with the tip just under the surface until around 100 degrees. I then sink the tip into the container and hold at an angle to create the whirlpool effect. Before no time the milk is up to temp. and it is just hot milk with some foam on the top. I have modified this and tried different techniques to no avail. I bang the container on the table and swirl the milk too.

How does one make nice, tight microfoam with a Quick Mill Andreja? Please lead me to a previous post that explains the procedure if it is different than what I am doing or tell me how to do it?

Thanks much

Ah - I feel your pain!! It took me a long time to re-teach myself to make foam from an Andreja Premium after having made it so easily with a Silvia. And complain as I might, to Chris, to folks here, and to others - it was always me saying that the king had no clothes! I looked into getting an after-market three or four-hole tip to replace the huge double-holed tip of the Andreja, but to no avail - I'd have had to replace the entire arm and I didn't want to do that.

Of course none of that helps you to make foam. The short answer is - you just have to re-learn how to make foam with an enormous amount of steam power. I practiced with, and still use, a small 10-ounce SS pitcher trying over and over again to get microfoam until I finally conquered the sucker. I can tell you how I do it but you'll have to forget what you did on the Silvia and simply re-learn, using this machine.

I don't measure the temperature anymore so I can't give you exact numbers but basically, I do the following (in my case, with 2% organic milk although it's easier with whole milk). It sounds like this is what you're doing but obviously it isn't:

- cool the milk in the fridge (I don't use the freezer and this works even if the milk is warm)
- blow out the water in the steam wand with a few short blasts
- lean the wand arm on the inside of the spout using it as a kind of guide and bury the wand deep in the milk, turning it up to max. You don't need to open the valve all the way - just a turn or two.
- oh-so-slowly lower the pitcher until the tip gets near the surface and that unmistakable "tearing" sound is heard. This is the most critical part and from your description, it sounds like this is where it's not happening for you. It sounds like you're not getting the microfoam.
- watch the level of the surface rise - in my case the foaming causes it to rise about 3/4 inch and the outside of the pitcher feels "warm".
- bury the wand and find an angle in order to make sure that the milk is swirling around. When the outside upper part of the pitcher is too hot to touch, you're done.
- bang the pitcher a time or three to get rid of the bubbles and swirl the milk in the pitcher to circulate the foam evenly throughout the pitcher.
- pour...

No good? - Try again (or ask more questions)!! I know it seems impossible now but if you work at it, it will happen.

BobY

Boby,

Thanks very much. I will try your method. Does it matter how much milk is in the pitcher? When I want just one drink, I use about 1.5"s of milk. Does the amount of milk make a difference? I know the less milk, the quicker it will come to temp.

So, bury the arm all the way and turn on stream.

raise arm slowly until just below the surface. When I have 3/4" of foam on top,
bury the arm again and whirlpool untill the rim to so hot to hold.

I am curious. If possible, take the temp of the milk when your process is finished and let me know what range it is in. Also let me know the volume of milk you are foaming.

I'll try it.

thanks again

honeyboy wrote:The Silvia made great micro foam but I have gone through a gallon of whole milk and still don't have it down with the Andreja.

Heh heh... and online forums are replete with new Silvia owners begging for help, or searching for alternative steam tips. Practically every vendor offers a "easier" one, which typically end up in the drawer after a few months (I sold mine). It's all what your used to, I guess.

honeyboy wrote:Does it matter how much milk is in the pitcher? When I want just one drink, I use about 1.5"s of milk. Does the amount of milk make a difference?

Yes! For purposes of practicing, I recommend wasting a little milk and working with no less than five ounces (12 ounce pitcher) or nine ounces (20 ounce pitcher). That will give you a wider margin of error. It's also worth practicing the mechanics with water; producing little bubbles without spraying, getting a good whirlpool, etc.

Yes, it matters how much milk.

This process is all about the dynamic motion in the pitcher.
Stretch a little at the start. Not looking for 3/4 inch of foam, you're looking for a RISE of 3/4"
Then get that milk whirlpooling. Start the whirlpool early and really get the milk moving!

The whirlpool is the key. The milk should move smoothly without bubbling but it should also be vigorous.
The whirlpool blends the air bubbles into the milk throughout the pitcher, making the microfoam.

When I finish, I'm at about 140-145 F (stop stretching at 80 F for starters)

honeyboy wrote:Boby,

Thanks very much. I will try your method. Does it matter how much milk is in the pitcher? When I want just one drink, I use about 1.5"s of milk. Does the amount of milk make a difference? I know the less milk, the quicker it will come to temp.

So, bury the arm all the way and turn on stream.

raise arm slowly until just below the surface. When I have 3/4" of foam on top,
bury the arm again and whirlpool untill the rim to so hot to hold.

I am curious. If possible, take the temp of the milk when your process is finished and let me know what range it is in. Also let me know the volume of milk you are foaming.

I'll try it.

thanks again

I fill the pitcher about 1/2 full but it's not critical. Just leave room at the top for the expansion. First turn on the steam and get rid of the water; then bury it and (this is the critical part) when you get the tip back up near the surface, raise it very, very slowly until you can just hear the tearing sound for a second or two. then bury it very slightly until the tearing stops and then up again for more tearing for another second or two. Then maybe a third time. In that way you can control the expansion. If you do it too much, it will be too foamy (instead of no foam). If that happens, next time back off on the amount of tearing (or expansion) until you get it just right. 3/4" above the original level (not 3/4" of foam) is what I get. For you, it will depend on your pitcher, amount of milk, etc.

Then whirl the milk until the upper part of the milk, as felt through the outside of the pitcher, is too hot to touch. The milk at the bottom of the pitcher gets hot before the top part because that's where the steam is.

I'll measure the volume and temperature tomorrow and let you know.

Bob

honeyboy wrote:Boby,
I am curious. If possible, take the temp of the milk when your process is finished and let me know what range it is in. Also let me know the volume of milk you are foaming.

I use a 10 oz pitcher. That's about as small as they get and foaming in one of these babies with that huge amount of steam and a two-hole tip is not easy. If you can learn to microfoam in one of these, you're probably good to go for nearly any size. I put 5 1/2 oz. of 2% organic milk into the pitcher and at the point that I can't touch the upper outside of the pitcher, the milk reaches a temperature of 150 deg F.

Bob

Any chance of someone posting a nice video of frothing using either a Vetrano or Andreja premium.? I have read the posts but am yet to perfect the technique. Video showing tip positioning with sound would be extremely useful. Thanks for the help.

I didn't see it mentioned yet, so I'll add my bit. Try learning using whole milk. The extra fat seems to microfoam easier than 2% or skim while you're learning the machine.

Once you get it, you've got it!

Instead of having a minute or two to correct your mistakes, you'll learn to work faster and get it right within a shorter time frame-

When I upgraded to a high horsepower machine I was tempted to use a "cheater tip" to make up for my crummy technique. Dan suggested I hang in there with the stock tip and learn to use my machine to it's full advantage. Now I'm really glad I took his advice. Thanks Dan!

elibenton wrote:Any chance of someone posting a nice video of frothing using either a Vetrano or Andreja premium.? I have read the posts but am yet to perfect the technique. Video showing tip positioning with sound would be extremely useful. Thanks for the help.

I'd love to see a video of proper frothing technique as well. Has anything like this ever been posted?

Thanks,

Andrew