I just got a pound of Counter Culture La Forza and I found that after four days of resting the coffee tastes best when my shot looks the worst during the pull.. I dont really understand this. I just pulled a 1.5 oz double in about 18 secs that tastes wonderful with my spaziale. What gives? Is this because the coffee is fresh and if I grind finely enough to get the shot to extract the proper time and volume it gets overextracted?

I don't know the coffee or machine; but I do know you can't drink the stopwatch

another_jim wrote: I do know you can't drink the stopwatch

Perhaps, although I find the stopwatches with "liquid crystal" displays go down easier.

Drink the shot. Enjoy. Savoring the espresso in the cup and analyzing the brewing process sometimes just don't go together. Without presuming to speak for all, I'll venture that many of us have at one time or another pulled a great tasting shot that defied all espresso pedagogy. Repeating great shots is the hard part, and that's where the pedagogy and practice come in....

UFGators wrote:I just got a pound of Counter Culture La Forza and I found that after four days of resting the coffee tastes best when my shot looks the worst during the pull.. I dont really understand this. I just pulled a 1.5 oz double in about 18 secs that tastes wonderful with my spaziale. What gives? Is this because the coffee is fresh and if I grind finely enough to get the shot to extract the proper time and volume it gets overextracted?

Well, being a UM grad myself, I can only say that Gators and arithmetic don't go well together..
While Jim's answer brought a great guffaw from me, I have to add that espresso is, after all these years STILL a mystery to me, but the investigative process is half the fun.
Having only pulled a couple of shots on a La Spaz, my assumption is that it seems like a forgiving machine, as even I pulled a nice shot my 3rd try. It was my first look at a smaller than 58mm basket. (now mine are 49mm!)

UFGators wrote:I just got a pound of Counter Culture La Forza and I found that after four days of resting the coffee tastes best when my shot looks the worst during the pull.. I dont really understand this. I just pulled a 1.5 oz double in about 18 secs that tastes wonderful with my spaziale. What gives? Is this because the coffee is fresh and if I grind finely enough to get the shot to extract the proper time and volume it gets overextracted?

There is something wrong with your sense of taste. You need to go back and pull shots that fit the correct time-volume profile. Keep drinking those until you re-train your tastebuds to "like" the correct shots.

Seriously, I reflected on this before in this thread and feel that the appearance of the brown color particle extraction is NOT the same as the flavor component extraction of the coffee. It is usually a very good starting point, but sometimes for a particular coffee bean blend, it will vary. That is perfectly okay. You also want to think about the possibility that your extraction temperature may be too high or your dose may be off.

I have noticed that many coffees will have two sweet spots, often very far apart in temperature and/or dose. You may be seeing that in this blend. I have had some coffees that took a very hot brew temp work quite well at a low temperature, ie, 202 and 189 as a random example. Dont ask for examples because I cannot recall a specific one right now, but I have come across it on accident before. The flavor profile of your blend would definitely change at a different brewing speed and I would encourage you to try it out, but if you like it, drink it. 4 days post roast is still a little fresh as well.

drdna wrote:There is something wrong with your sense of taste. You need to go back and pull shots that fit the correct time-volume profile. Keep drinking those until you re-train your tastebuds to "like" the correct shots.

Seriously, I reflected on this before in this thread and feel that the appearance of the brown color particle extraction is NOT the same as the flavor component extraction of the coffee. It is usually a very good starting point, but sometimes for a particular coffee bean blend, it will vary. That is perfectly okay. You also want to think about the possibility that your extraction temperature may be too high or your dose may be off.

Haha, something wrong with my sense of taste? I retrain my taste buds? I think you were being sarcastic (or hope) I have pulled many 25-30 sec shots that I like, but I am just saying that I was amazed that all signs showed a shot that was overly blond and nasty, but it tasted as good as my best shots. Could just be luck of the draw. It could be that I am used to pulling shots with toscano and la forza requires a lower brew temp. I will try again tomorrow.

I went to THE Ohio State University, which makes both of you wrong regardless of the question or answer.

I really love college rivalry, there is really nothing like it. By the way, I disagree with the comment that gators don't know math, I can count 2 national championships in the last 3 years!

Don't get me started.
Back on topic...whatever it is>
Oh Yeah, Lucio's "less than 25 second by-the-book" espresso shot.
My guess would be a little underdosed basket gave him the shorter timing, but his blend loved it.
A guess, for sure.

Many people, including coffee shops that use La Forza as their house espresso, have found great shots in the lower time range. One coffee shop owner very shyly said to me "I get really good shots at 19 seconds!". She was almost afraid that someone would over hear her comments, and that the espresso police would come and get her.

It was not that long ago that the common rule of thumb, and golden rule passed from one Barista to the other, was the 18 to 23 second rule. If you have enough coffee in the basket, and a little bit coarse grind, you can extract enough sweetness to balance acidity. The result is a juicy sweet shot, even if it's a little thin in body.

So your findings are in no way out of the ordinary for this particular blend. Some Baristas get the idea drilled into their head that shots should be short and long to be sweet. It just goes to show you, there's what's right, and then there's what's right.

I knew I wasnt crazy, I have to say that I am very impressed with both CCC's la forza and toscano. La forza seems to be the most forgiving of all coffees I have ever brewed. I tried 3 different doses, 2 different temps (93 and 94) different grind settings and I did not have one shot I couldnt (or wouldnt) drink. My two bags of toscano have been resting for 7 days now, I am excited to dive right in tomorrow. Toscano makes one heck of a ristretto.

cannonfodder wrote:I have noticed that many coffees will have two sweet spots, often very far apart in temperature and/or dose.

I thought that was the case for ALL coffees, but maybe I am being too selective in what I choose to drink. Usually a higher temperature, higher volume sweet spot and a lower temperature ristretto sweet spot, in my experience.

Most do, but I have had quite a few that are very picky. Miss it by a couple of seconds or a degree and it goes to pot.