Ha ha. Cannonfodder, poor Jon is getting conflicting info from different sources on different forums even.

As I am a firm believer in "do what works for you" espresso making. Jon, try both methods out for sure. Most folks spend a fortune on wasted coffee, milk, time, etc, figuring it out.

OlywaDave wrote:Ha ha. Cannonfodder, poor Jon is getting conflicting info from different sources on different forums even.

LOL, I have not visited CG in some time. It looks like Mark is addressing temperature issues and I am referring to mechanics of the process. I am with you, don't over complicate the process. It took me three years to settle into 'my' style.

Opinions and suggestions are one thing that is not in short supply. Take them with a grain of salt and don't forget, it is just coffee so enjoy the journey.

HB wrote:What I found humorous wasn't Mark's advice - which is spot on - but the thought that many potential buyers are concerned about the complexity of managing the brew temperature of an HX espresso machine. Yet the "simplicity" of a single boiler like Silvia as described above invokes imagery of an arcane mating ritual more than espresso preparation.

Yeah, I had the same reaction. My eyes glazed over about halfway through. Sheesh! By comparison, the HX flush is a piece of cake.
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John

jonbauer wrote:Dan, I haven't started experimenting with WDT yet. Gotta get a needle and a yogurt container and start using it...

To save a trip to my local science supplies store I brought home a skewer from my local Mediterranean restaurant (http://pitahouse.com -- I have no connection other than as a satisfied customer). It's a very slender wooden dowel (about 1.5-2.0mm diameter), pointed on one end. It seems to do the trick for me! I'm sure you can buy similar "kebob skewers" in your local grocery. And, they're disposable! Alternatively, if you're willing to accept the larger diameter, you could use a more traditional metal skewer as well -- or even one of those fancy, celluloid decorated, long toothpicks used to hold wraps together.

Be creative! Be geeky! Be WDT!!
t.

What I personally can't get over is that folks pour their shot first and let it sit while they steam... I know I know I said "to each their own" and I meant it but here is my reasoning.

I'd sacrifice the quality of my milk any day over sacrificing the integrity of my espresso shot. For starters the espresso is what it is all about, secondly milk is cheaper than quality coffee.

In a shop environment this might be a little more acceptable considering there is not wait for steam pressure.

On my Silvia (when drinking a "milked" beverage) I steam first and take it a little hotter than I would like the milk, turn off the steam switch, expel enough water (and steam) from the group to drop the temp and trigger the element, prep my PF, and finally extract once the element light kicks off.

RapidCoffee wrote:Yeah, I had the same reaction. My eyes glazed over about halfway through. Sheesh! By comparison, the HX flush is a piece of cake.
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John

Amen! I surfed Silvia 2 years before adding PID. Now had HX Bricoletta 13 months. HX surf is a piece a cake compared to surfing Silvia. Both easier and can more consistently hit desired shot temp.

OlywaDave wrote:What I personally can't get over is that folks pour their shot first and let it sit while they steam... I know I know I said "to each their own" and I meant it but here is my reasoning.

I'd sacrifice the quality of my milk any day over sacrificing the integrity of my espresso shot. For starters the espresso is what it is all about, secondly milk is cheaper than quality coffee.

In a shop environment this might be a little more acceptable considering there is not wait for steam pressure.

On my Silvia (when drinking a "milked" beverage) I steam first and take it a little hotter than I would like the milk, turn off the steam switch, expel enough water (and steam) from the group to drop the temp and trigger the element, prep my PF, and finally extract once the element light kicks off.

Fortunately the majority of my 3&1/2 years with Missy I wasn't into cappuccinos or macchiatos. But that last year exploring other traditional espresso beverages now and then never had a satisfactory solution. I chose the pull first and let the shot sit on top of Silvia staying somewhat warm and dying while waiting the couple minutes it took to come up to steam temp and steam. I found it much harder/time consuming to come back down from steaming temp to any semblance of shot temp accuracy, even with PID.

Solved the dilemma of shot first or steam first 13 months ago, Bricoletta.

miKe mcKoffee wrote:I found it much harder/time consuming to come back down from steaming temp to any semblance of shot temp accuracy, even with PID.

After some trial and error I had no problem bringing the boiler temp on Silvia back down. Without the PID I flushed until the element light turned on or was about to go on after some experience with that technique.

Now with a PID I just flush until the temp drops to about 10-15 degrees above where I want it to be and it coasts into the operating/extraction temp.

Again I don't ever cry over lost milk but I do cry over lost espresso...