Hi All,

I am brand new to this website and have scoured it over the months for information helping me dial in my techniques and practices in the pursuit of coffee brewing perfection. I have seen a lot of posts regarding micro foam which is why I am writing today but I have not found anything regarding my current foam issue. SO, here it is. When I attempt to make micro foam I get that nice wet paint look that people talk about but when it comes time for my pour there is a separation in the milk and the foam. I have a good whirlpool going during the stretching and heating but I can't seem to get the foam to mix into the milk and not separate. Not sure where I am missing something and hoping someone might have a trick or tip to help get the foam to mix into the milk better.

Thanks,

Ron

Hi Ronny,

What milk are you using? The only time I have really come across that problem is when there was a milk issue. The foam had a slight slimy texture and slid right off the top of the "liquid". Quite disgusting.

On further thought, I remember reading this may also have something to do with the detergent you use to clean your jug with. If it is not completely free of the soap, this can also happen. Personally I never clean mine with soap, just hot water right after pouring.

I have found that whole milk works better than reduced fat milk.
I also found that organic whole milk works better than regular. I use Stonyfields successfully.
If you leave the foamed milk standing, the milk and the foam will separate. You can keep the two mixed by swirling the jug of foamed milk.

Alan

How much milk is being steamed at a time? Enough for multiple beverages? If so, have a second pre-warmed pitcher on hand, and after steaming and swirling (as advised above), pour half into the second pitcher. One pitcher for each beverage. But the key (again, as mentioned above) is quality milk. Good microfoam depends on the quality of the protein and of the fat, and having them in a good ratio.

Hello, when this has happened to me it was due to over heating the milk. I know most people seem to favor placing a hand on the pitcher and warming the milk till its just uncomfortable to hold. This doesn't work so great for me cause the pitcher usually doesn't heat evenly. Instead, I like using an "instant" read thermometer placed into the deepest area of milk when I tilt the pitcher . I stop steaming when the thermometer reaches 120deg . The "instant" thermometer then climbs up to around 140deg. The micro foam I make at this temperature stays incorporated in the milk even if I let it sit for a while as I clean things up. I've also found that the milk is sweetest right around 140deg.

Also, I've found that using a shallow pour spout seems to allow any separated milk under the microfoam flow out faster than the microfoam on top. Where a deeper pour spout seems to keep everything flowing at a more uniform rate. So for art purposes a deep pour spout works a lot better.

Separation can indeed come from a few different things:

- over stretching the milk and not mixing it in enough. Sometimes, it still looks like nice wet paint but there is still a good layer of foam floating on top of the milk. Try letting it "pschh pschh" just a little while, and spend more time mixing it in, tip under the surface

- over heating may also ruin the mixture. I don't use the "until uncomfortable" trick with my pitchers (cafelat), i find it's too far gone by then. I stop at "feels just about right" and one second more on top of that

- Milk % and brand. Try a few different milks, whole or 3% and over. Some brands work better than others. I really don't know why! I get a specific brand i know works well just for the cappas we make!

Don't worry too much, i've been at it a few years and still mess it up a fair amount of the time

Let us know how it goes

Hmmm, It is sounding like I am letting the milk sit for to long without swirling it as I pull my shot. I use high quality organic 2% for lattes but drink whole milk so I have both inn my fridge. I know traditionally a lot of people pull the shot after they steam their milk but to help avoid having the milk separate is it sacrilegious to pour the shot first and then prep the milk right after. Obviously my gaggia is a single boiler so I don't have the luxury yet of knocking both out at the same time. My Crema holds up very well so I don't see it dissipating too much before I could get the milk done. I will keep working it and see if letting it sit to long was my issue.

Thanks for the help so far,

Ron

I used to do exactly that when i had my Angeli (small single boiler). Pull the shot, then froth the milk. There is no sacrilege, as long as it works for you.

how far should the tip be from the surface? and how deep will you bury the tip once you get that ideal temp?

there are many times i get bad rosetta. the final pour makes the waves like a weed/onion and not leaf.

Normally the tip should be just under the milk to introduce the air, not high enough to suck in big bubble's, but just low enough so you get the proper "pshh pshh" sound.

You do not move the tip down once you reach ideal temp, this is way too late. You move it down once you have enough air introduced into the mix. Perhaps this is why your milk is not flowing well, as it still needs to be liquid enough to form the delicate structure's. Rather introduce too little air in the beginning than too much. In fact, some designs need more liquid and less foam, and others are better with a tiny bit more froth.

The technique differs depending on the machine you use though, for example, on the 3 hole commercial machine I work on, I need to move the wand to the side to swirl the milk. This helps in mixing the micro foam into the milk and keeping consistent temperature. On my home machine, which has a 4 hole tip, the best technique is to keep the tip in the middle and not move it around. This is because the 4 steam jets mix the milk evenly already, and moving it to the side doesn't work.

As for depth, maybe just an extra cm (half inch?).