I am not new to the coffee scene, however, I am new to the home barista crowd. We have only had our espresso machine (Alex Duetto II) for about 3 weeks, and I've enjoyed every minute of it thus far. Most of the shots have been good, and I know it will get better with time and practice. My dissonance lies in the multitudes of forums that I've read on HB over the last few months about microfoam...I've read so much about how it takes beginners (whether by speculation or self-report) months to years to get "good" microfoam.

For some reason, maybe my own naiveté, I don't seem to have this problem. The first week I just played around with the steam wand to get familiar with it, but since then, I've gotten perfectly acceptable microfoam every time I've steamed milk. I poured my first rosetta within a few days that look similar to the other ones online. While they are not perfect every time, they've been fairly consistent.

Now, maybe I'm doing something horribly wrong, but how in the hell can this be possible? Microfoam doesn't seem that hard to achieve, so I'm afraid I may be missing something. Are people making it out to be harder than it really is? Maybe the machine is just that good? Someone please fill me in.

rluna wrote:Now, maybe I'm doing something horribly wrong, but how in the hell can this be possible? Microfoam doesn't seem that hard to achieve, so I'm afraid I may be missing something. Are people making it out to be harder than it really is? Maybe the machine is just that good? Someone please fill me in.

It's a bit like riding a bike. If you read a bit about it, and have a natural balance, as well as a basic understanding of the physics involved, you'll probably be up the first day, and have a new mode of transpo the next.
Those of us with less natural talent and understanding will still fall and skin our knees, and the crying and bleeding will be a complete and utter mystery to you.

It's not hard, it's a skill. Some folk play the piano without lessons.

Sometimes it's easy. Other times the forces work against you.

My first machine was a piece of cake. I was making rosettas the first week as well (still have the photos).

With my recent double boiler machine it's been 6 months and I'm still struggling. It's partly because my standards are now higher (for both espresso and Latte art), and it's also a matter of "unlearning" habits from the old machine.

Lastly, some machines/tips/milks are just more difficult to master than others.

Just watch out the dreaded "microfoam rut". Just when you think you're master of the Latte is when it usually strikes.

rluna wrote:Now, maybe I'm doing something horribly wrong, but how in the hell can this be possible? Microfoam doesn't seem that hard to achieve, so I'm afraid I may be missing something. Are people making it out to be harder than it really is? Maybe the machine is just that good? Someone please fill me in.

The machine in question can make quite a difference.

For example, Elektra has a knack for striking the perfect balance of volume, velocity, and dispersion pattern. That's why the Elektra Semiautomatica merited a 10.0 for its "Cappuccino Lover's score" while the Rancilio Silvia earned a 6.0. The same holds true for the Elektra Microcasa a Leva; you would really have to try hard to screw up the microfoam on such espresso machines.

Thank you for the posts. I feel like there's hope for noobs like myself; at first I was a little intimidated reading the horrendous stories of the more experienced home baristas. I think the Duetto II is very forgiving of mistakes generally, which makes it great for a first machine. I've been able to get similar results using both whole and 2% milk, so thus far I haven't chosen a favorite.

I guess the squeaky wheel gets the grease, in this case, which is why I haven't read much about how easy it can be to make microfoam.

Endo, what is this "microfoam rut" you speak of?

HB wrote:The same holds true for the Elektra Microcasa a Leva; you would really have to try hard to screw up the microfoam on such espresso machines.

I don't need to try hard to screw it up on the MCaL, it comes quite naturally to me!

For some reason I have difficulty with it that I have not experienced on other machines. Its obviously me, not the machine, and most likely carrying over a habit or technique from other machines that doesn't apply well to this one. That, or perhaps my horizontal learning curve...

Ten years ago, two or three cafes on earth doing latte art, and most people thought that frothing milk so that it could be squeezed through a pastry bag was the height of cappuccino art. Old timers who got into that habit, like me, had a very hard time switching to microfoam, and we may have made a much bigger deal about it than was really warranted.

I've already posted my mea culpas.

HB wrote:The machine in question can make quite a difference.

For example, Elektra has a knack for striking the perfect balance of volume, velocity, and dispersion pattern. That's why the Elektra Semiautomatica merited a 10.0 for its "Cappuccino Lover's score" while the Rancilio Silvia earned a 6.0. The same holds true for the Elektra Microcasa a Leva; you would really have to try hard to screw up the microfoam on such espresso machines.

To a huge extend that's likely hitting the nail on the head. Most don't start their Journey down the Dark Side with a Duetto class machine! It's a easier steaming on my Linea than Bricoletta at home (with boiler down ~1 bar to reduce extreme flushing needed with hot blooded Bric' HX). I'd wager most prosumer class HX machines with <2L boilers running boiler pressure down around 1 bar really aren't that great steaming. Can do it to be sure, but relatively as slow as molasses. Big advantage prosumer DB vs HX can have the steam boiler up 1.5+ bar and not have to deal with excessive flushing for shots.

I'm still working on it myself. I think it's part being a newbie on the dark side, part having a machine with a boatload of steam power, and part not getting enough practice since I mainly drink straight shots. I've gotten some mediocre microfoam with the stock LaSpaz S1V2 tip in a small pitcher using whole milk but it still isn't quite where I think it should be. I think it's just going to be practice, practice, practice with maybe a different wand if I can't dial it in well enough.

jpreiser wrote:... maybe a different wand if I can't dial it in well enough.

I own all 3 Vivaldi wands: stock, S5 and no-burn. The wand makes no difference (except when using a huge pitcher, in which case the longer S5 can be a benefit). The tip, on the other hand, makes a big difference.

The stock 0.9mmm 4 hole tip works the best, IMO. I've also gotten decent results on a one hole tip. But in my opinion the one hole tip is a crutch. It's too slow and defeats the purpose of owning a powerful DB steaming machine like the Vivaldi. Still, if you can't break your slow steaming, single boiler "swirling" habit, it will work.

Hint: To make a 1-hole Vivaldi tip, you can use "Mighty Putty" (in honour of Billy Mays) to block the tip holes, then drill a 1/16' center hole.

another_jim wrote:most people thought that frothing milk so that it could be squeezed through a pastry bag was the height of cappuccino art.

That's an awesome quote Jim, and it sums up why I thought I hated cappuccinos. I had been an Americano guy for years, but that all ended two weeks ago when Rachael first poured me a cappuccino with microfoam. Reading your article on steaming milk was the most helpful resource Rachael and I found. All the videos and posts we found didn't explain it as well as you did in the link you posted above. I thought the community here would be thankful, why do you refer to it as a mistake?

jlunavtgrad wrote: why do you refer to it as a mistake?

The guide has held up fairly well. The mistake I was referring to was in earlier posts about frothing milk, both mine and others, that made it seem more complicated than it really was. These early instructions were overcomplicated because they were aimed at people who already had developed bad habits that needed breaking.

Unfortunately, some of the old, misleading turns of phrase still hang around, so that newbies sometimes end up playing periscope with their frothing wands.

another_jim wrote:Unfortunately, some of the old, misleading turns of phrase still hang around, so that newbies sometimes end up playing periscope with their frothing wands.

The 'periscoping' (if I can coin a verb) is necessitated by machines that cant really supply the oomph to incorporate air on their own. I've been comparing the two machine I go back and forth on, my aforementioned lever and two-group commercial, and you're absolutely right on with the powerful commercial machine.
The somewhat anemic lever pressure, the small valve and smaller boiler headspace*, married to a single hole tip (the three hole just deflated the boiler in no time...) conspire to require a bit more of a dance. If I don't surf the top to sip air in the beginning, there just won't be any fluff to the milk at all. It resembles the milk my cousin used to get out of his dairy cows. Thin and a bit yellow. Still sweet, still hot, but no art forthcoming.

The misleading part is only that that others with similar problems pass on to users with dissimilar kit. If the only experience I had was the lever, the only method I could teach would be the periscoping method, as it would be the only one that I knew.
I tend to (and y'all feel free to slap me down if'n I don't) give my advice as my experience with my kit in my house, my temp, my humidity, etc. Some caveat that indicates that these are the things that I have been told, and things that I have experienced, and what kit I've experienced them with. Trying to suggest that ones experiences cover all situations with all kit, coffee, milk, and locations is probably a fool's errand, as there will always be someone somewhere that has different results.
I can learn from the appearance of pucks, I can get good microfoam (not great yet, but good) using a periscoping technique with my anemic Tin Man, and I taste sink shots. Some of 'em have been great!



*OTOH, I've just decided that if I weren't to fill the danged tin man to his pointy lil hat every time, I may get more steam, and therefore, better microfoam.... Hmmm, learn stuff every day! Thanks for making me go and try new things y'all!

Your post got me thinking.

The best frother I ever used, Elektras and LMs (a great frother as far as I'm concerned) included, was the Solis SL70. It took about 55 seconds to do 4 to 5 ounces for a cappa, but the single hole tip was completely perfect, and I could have sold the result at the Benjamin Moore store. Some of the worst frothers are the Silvia, which takes as long as the Solis, and the Cimbalis, which are as fast as any Elektra or LM. The bad tips can make decent microfoam, but the milk and the jug have to be just right, and the stars have to be aligned

I don't have these machines in front of me, but my guess is that the good frothing tip can get very close to the surface of the milk without blowing bubbles, while the poor ones create all sorts of roil, turbulence, and bubbling no matter how deep you take them. This, at least, was my impression of the lousy Cimbali and Rancilio tips, they roil and bubble, they don't swirl or whoosh.

My advice to people with crappy tips is to consider replacing them. Buy an LM or Elektra tip sized right (the little three hole Elektra for smaller machines, the commercial tips for the big ones), screw off whatever tip you have, measure the threads, and buy an adapter at McMaster-Carr. Life is too short to torture yourself with a tip that is poorly designed.

Distinct stretching and rolling stages (actually swirling) are used mostly on weaker steaming single boiler machines with one hole tips.

With more steam power and multiple holed tips, less movement is definitely better.

You can look at my video here and you'll I hold my pitcher steady on the tray to minimize movement. Stretching and rolling pretty much happen simultaneously.

Since I just made myself a nice cappuccino, I can't resist commenting on how right you are about "the stars being aligned" just right with the Silvia...

I recently acquired a PID'd Silvia, a little upgrade from my Gaggia, and I have to say I'm having a significantly harder time getting microfoam. I had excellent luck with the Gaggia - a 10oz pitcher, and leaving the plastic 1-hole piece on the wand without the frothing aid worked just about every time. First time since I had the machine, I went to steam for a Capp. on the Silvia yesterday, and I've been struggling. My first time, I ended up with milk everywhere... Not only because the steam blew it out of the container when I underestimated it, but also because my 5oz of milk stretched into 10 before I could say latte art... Not a good first capp...

The power is definitely there with the Silvia, but I have NOT found a good way to get silky microfoam for a 6oz cap yet. I agree, there is a lack of a "swooshing" swirling motion, and I can't get the same smooth stretching and whirlpool action I could on the Gaggia. I'm positive this is a case of a learning curve, but it goes to show that more power doesn't always translate to easier learning of microfoam, and the overall package of power, steam tip, etc. must be balanced just right... So far I think 6.0 is just about right for the Silvia's steaming. Good think I'm a straight shot fanatic : D

-Bill

another_jim wrote: Some of the worst frothers are the Silvia

wfallon wrote:I can't resist commenting on how right you are about "the stars being aligned" just right with the Silvia...

Odd, The Silvia was the second machine I poured art off of. The first was A Krups 963!
My preference/skill level on any given machine may have a lot more to do with what I learned them on than the actual quality of the machine itself.
I'm having a great huge time getting anything respectable from the Tin Man, but I have noticed that a half-full boiler makes better steam longer than a full one.

My take on this whole thing is that it is easier to steam by sound than it is by look.

A second or two of tearing or squeal from the tip is normal, then you start listening for the more growely sounds, once you get them you let it get to the 'too hot for the hand' stage and stop.

Milk with a steam wand in it makes quite distinctive sounds at the various stages. I believe listen and learn is just as good as look and learn.

-Cecil

Endo wrote:I own all 3 Vivaldi wands: stock, S5 and no-burn. The wand makes no difference (except when using a huge pitcher, in which case the longer S5 can be a benefit). The tip, on the other hand, makes a big difference.

Thanks, that's what I meant to say.