Making Progress With My New Lelit

by **ssauer2004** on Wed Sep 08, 2010 11:53 am

I received my Lelit pl041/53 combo last Friday. I didn't get a chance to touch it until yesterday due to the holiday weekend. I purchased a pound on freshly (4 days ago) roasted beans from a local roaster. While I was at his coffee shop, I had an espresso and thought it was OK. It was prepared with the same beans that I would be utilizing and seemed a bit strong in taste. Strong could be a poor choice of words, I guess I should say it wasn't smooth. I am very new to this, but I did notice that the beans were very dark in color, almost black.

I got back home and got to work immediately. I have a quality tamper coming in tomorrow. For now, I'm using the POS plastic tamper included with the machine. I didn't touch the settings on the grinder and ground away. I have read in previous posts that the Letlit 53 is set to grind very fine right out of the factory. This was proven once again. I didn't get a drop of espresso from it. I back down the grinder five full turns of the knob. I pulled another shot and got a tiny bit of espresso to flow. I backed it down another five rotations of the knob and pulled a third shot. This shot flowed quite fast. It filled the espresso cup in about fifteen seconds. I adjusted the knob backwards about two revolutions and pulled a fourth shot. This shot was timed right about twenty-five seconds. It looked really good, so I decided to throw it back. It tasted better than the shot I had at the cafe earlier in the day and the crema was much thicker. I have to assume that if it tasted better than the actual cafe I have to be close to where I need to be with that particular bean. The only gripe I would have is that it did taste a little bitter towards the end. Again, the smoothness was still not there. I am wondering if I just don't like this guy's coffee. I didn't really see any channeling and I'm also not completely confident with the POS tamper.

Based on near universal positive ratings, I purchased some Espresso Toscano from CCC. It should be here in a couple of days. It will be interesting to see how much different my grind settings will be and if my taste buds agree with it. I'll let everyone know.

PS added by moderator: Cross-posted to CoffeeGeek here.

by **BeastinBarista** on Wed Sep 08, 2010 12:28 pm

Based on your description that roast level sounds too dark. It is common misconception (IMO anyway) that an "espresso roast" must be dark and oily when that is hardly the case. What I look for in properly extracted espresso is very bold in taste with no harshness or bite, smooth with a nice lingering finish. Also should be somewhat thick in mouthfeel with a buttery like texture. Again, that is what I shoot for when dialing in. We all have our own expectations and there are many variables involved in espresso extraction.

Toscano is a great all-around blend that should help get things dialed in for you. Have fun with it.

by **cannonfodder** on Wed Sep 08, 2010 3:21 pm

It could be a lot of things. Some channeling (bottomless portafilter will answer that) uneven extraction or simply a brew temperature that is a tad hot. Or the beans are roasted to dark which can impart an ashy charcoal flavor.

by **ssauer2004** on Thu Sep 09, 2010 7:38 pm

I got my new tamper in today. I ordered a nice 57mm piece from 1st line to replace the stock POS that was included with the Lelit. I tried a couple of more shots when I got home from work. I could still taste a strong burnt type taste. The crema was really thick and both shots were pulled in the 25 second range. They looked and felt really good. I really think it's the beans due to the fact that even my wife commented on the fact that the beans smelled burnt prior to grinding. I also noticed that the zip lock bag I placed them in appears to be very oily. Hopefully the Espresso Toscano will provide better results.

Being such a noob at this I do have a couple of questions, are beans supposed to have a burnt smell prior to grinding? If placed in a zip lock bag, how much oil should be visible?

by HB on Thu Sep 09, 2010 7:48 pm

ssauer2004 wrote:...are beans supposed to have a burnt smell prior to grinding? If placed in a zip lock bag, how much oil should be visible?

Sure, heavily roasted coffees have a distinct burnt smell, but most coffees you'll read discussed on this site are medium-roasted and the fragrance ranges from earth to cedar to flowers to fruits and everything in between. Oils are visible on heavily roasted coffees moments after the roast completes; for medium-roasted coffees, a slight sheen appears 3-5 days later. Jim sums it up nicely in Espresso beans: Oily or dry - which is best?:

another_jim wrote:Beans get oily when they have been roasted beyond the point where the cell walls rupture and the oils stored inside the cell wall vacuoles are released. This stage, while roasting, is roughly marked by a crackling noise called the 2nd crack (the first crack happens at a lower temperature when the water turns to steam).

If the roast is very dark, so the beans are a dark chocolate color or darker, the oil will be on the bean from the day of the roast and stay there until it is about 3 to 4 weeks old, at which point it will all have evaporated. The sight of beans this color without oil is a warning that the coffee is stale. If the roast is a bit lighter, milk chocolate color, the oil will take about 3 days to a week to appear on the bean surface. In some parts of Europe, which like this level of roast, the saying is that a bean without oil is either too old or too young. Beans lighter than milk chocolate have intact cell walls and will never get oily, and that will not be a clue about freshness or otherwise.

So much for the facts, what about the taste?

Advocates of lighter, oil-free roasts claim oily beans taste rancid. Advocates of oiled roasts say that without them appearing through roasting, the oils cannot get into the cup, since grinding alone leaves most cell walls intact. There is a bit of truth to both these statements, and in terms of the flavors in the coffee oils, a medium, milk chocolate roast, fairly new, and just showing a few spots of oil, will taste the best.

However, not all things are equal. The darker one roasts, the more one roasts out the fruit and floral flavors in the coffee. On the other hand, very dark roasts have spice and smoke flavors that many people enjoy. These flavors have nothing to do with the oils.

Finally, among people who make a hobby of espresso, you will probably find nobody who will willingly drink a coffee whose beans are so oily that they foul the grinder. I hesitate to say that roasts this dark are the Thunderbird or peppermint schnaps of coffee, but it wouldn't be an entirely unfair statement.

Searching on 'oily beans' will lead to related discussions.

by **ssauer2004** on Fri Sep 10, 2010 10:34 pm

I received the Espresso Toscano today. What a difference in the smell, appearance, and taste. I pulled about four shots and they were all in the 25 second range. The shots were a little sour at the end though. I am breaking a cardinal rule in the fact that I do not have a digital scale as of yet. The digital scale is coming tomorrow. I do have a question.

What specs do you go by for dose, the bean or what the machine usually likes. CCC states that the dose should be in mid to high 19's. I've read in other posts that the Lelit likes doses in the 17 to high 18 range.

by HB on Sat Sep 11, 2010 12:21 pm

ssauer2004 wrote:What specs do you go by for dose, the bean or what the machine usually likes. CCC states that the dose should be in mid to high 19's. I've read in other posts that the Lelit likes doses in the 17 to high 18 range.

The roaster's recommendations are specific to their equipment; Counter Culture Coffee uses La Marzocco in their training centers. There's little relation between the optimal dose for their equipment and yours; go with what you've read from other Le'Lit users. In my experience, most consumer equipment works best in the 14 to 16 gram range versus the 18+ gram doses frequently cited for La Marzocco espresso machines.

See Mano Lite: A Short Guide to Dialing in Espresso SOs and Blends for more details and the Home Barista's Guide to Espresso for background information. For yet another how-to, see Randy's EASY GUIDE TO BETTER ESPRESSO AT HOME.

by **jbell** on Sat Sep 11, 2010 4:53 pm

here's a link to an older discussion regarding updosing.
Pulling shots with Lelit PL041

by **ssauer2004** on Mon Sep 13, 2010 2:47 pm

I just burned through a bag of Espresso Toscano. I'm still getting some channeling and the shots are still a little sour. Before I ran out of coffee, I was dosing at 18g and pulling shots in the 20 seconds range. I was about to grind finer in an attempt to slow the flow up a little. A couple of questions:

Am I going in the right direction or should I stick with the grind and tamp harder?

by HB on Mon Sep 13, 2010 3:03 pm

See Troubleshooting Common Espresso Problems (#2). Your first instinct to change the grind setting was correct; don't change tamp pressure to "correct" for extraction problems.


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