I've been doing latte art for a couple weeks now, i poured my first rosetta a week ago today, got myself a job in a creperie which i start on Tuesday. I criticise my work quite harshly but it keeps a standard i guess! haha. i was just looking for comments on this mornings cup, any pointers for someone thats learning. I must say i was rather proud of it though.

oh and feel free to add your own pics, would be cool to see how others here do rosettas

That is very impressive for having only done latte art for a couple of weeks!

thanks, i had a good teacher. A friend of mine is very into espresso and latte art. he was kind enough to invite me into his shop when it was closed and teach me as best he could.

another rosetta i have done recently, its quite a fat one, haha :

Those are great rosettas...especially since you just started a couple of weeks ago.

What a blessing to have had someone available to give you a lesson.

It has taken me almost a year and I haven't produce a rosetta quite as nice as yours....and not for lack of trying. It took me an age to get the milk microfoamed to the right consistency on my La Pav Pro. too.

thanks a lot, the friend that taught me was kind enough to use the beans and milk from his shop. we poured about 100 cups on a day the shop was closed. I'm not sure if he competes but i do know he has an interest in latte art championships. He is a decent guy, sold me my Gaggia Classic, grinder, beans etc at the price he bought them from the supplier.

But one thing that really did help me with my rosetta was to to find a good video of one being poured and watch it over and over, look at things like the height of the pitcher at different stages in the pour one time, then next time i would view i would pay attention to the angle of the cup, etc.

while you learn try to keep the pitcher high, drop it as the cup is 1/2 full but keep it in the middle of the cup when you start to make the rosetta leaf.

good luck to you!

Those look great! I'm jealous of the day-long lesson you were able to get. There really can't be any better way to get good at latte art than to practice cup after cup, taking what you learned from the last pour and being able to give it another go right away.

You mentioned that watching a video of a good pour over and over helped you immensely. Is there a specific video you studied? I'd love to see it.

There was one video that i watched over and over but i couldn't find it for you on youtube, sorry
but i did find one video that could help. Its not the best pour ever but the technique its good.



Main reasons i feel this is good is because of the cup angle at different stages, the height of the jug at stages and the way he waited for the white spot to appear before starting the rosetta motion. (some people start shaking to make the white spot, avoid this, its messy)

Try to keep the pouring milk from the jug at the thickness of a pencil, drop the jug low and wait for the white spot. Start rosetta motion and as you leave the center of the cup to make the top half of the rosetta you need to reduce the angle of the cup.

This is if you have microfoam done alright, too thin is less forgiving then too thick. If thick then hold the jug higher when you star pouring the milk, this will sink the milk laying on the top usually. When steaming milk keep it high in the jug making that slight hissing sound till 20-25C then drop low into the milk till 65C. Once finished give it a spin around if a bit thick (this gets some of the fat off the milk and onto the sides on the jug as well as giving it nice texture), a tap down to break any bubbles then pour.

These are basics, not a full walk through but i hope it helps some of you that aren't able to get it right and possibly having some of the problems that I was having.

It took me two years to get to that point.

The leafs in your first photo are much more professional-looking than the round leafs in the video which are more typical to what I usually see. However, the milk in that photo (and the one following it) seems to have developed a thick latte-art layer (a layer of dry foam that doesn't taste the same as the drink beneath it), maybe because the drink was left for some time before the photo was taken. Regardless, I would not miss saying that you are doing great, and to praise the teaching efforts of your friend. Milk seems to need some serious education to be done correctly in a reasonable time, otherwise it takes years (or never) to be understood and steamed well reliably.

The best steaming procedure in my opinion is the one shown in the video attributed to Scottie Callaghan (the Australian champion) on YouTube (the steaming video, not the pouring videos). This man is capable of steaming the milk without breaking the surface throughout the whole process, which in my experience allows for a much-higher-quality milk. The common philosophy is different, which is to break the surface, intentionally at the beginning as "to inject air", and then to "texture", however, only a little time is needed to show that the texturing can only obscure the flaws injected into the milk in the aeration phase. The best steamed milk, amazingly, can be obtained without breaking the surface at all, only by placing the tip on the "very surface" and ensuring that some delicate dynamics are occurring inside the milk jug. The milk produced using this single-phase procedure is too liquid at the beginning but will thicken to an acceptable consistency within 20 seconds.

just a little update really, ive been trying a couple new things while pouring and have managed to get more consecutive in my pours.

See, this is why this site is terrible! Just when you think you're making progress with something, somebody comes along to say, no, it's not like that, it's like this!

I've got a la pavoni europiccola (millennium) and I'm convinced latte-art-capable-milk is possible with it, even without a modified tip. I've seen it. I've done it! But never 2 days in a row, and often, months apart...

But I thought I'd made a major improvement by "almost intentionally" allowing big bubbles to form early in then steaming, then sinking the wand for the duration, and steaming for a shorter time overall. All this seemed to be working.

But then I checked out recent additions to this thread some months back to find at best I'm just cosmetically covering mistakes. Thanks Orwa! Worse, I checked out the video he refers to. It is amazing, and I've been trying to copy it in my own modest, unsuccessful way. Worse still, occasionally, I come close, which makes me think I'm about to reach another plateau. Then, next day? Dishwasher soap type stuff.

As I see it, there are two fundamental obstacles to great frothing with this machine, and both result in making it difficult, if not impossible to achieve the fabled goal of surfing the tip on exactly the surface of the milk throughout:

1. The lack of steaming power
2. Steaming is turned on/off with a knob, as opposed to a switch or lever. Given the small size/weight of this machine, turning the knob many revolutions to shut off the steam is tough to do without upsetting the position of the pitcher and/or the machine itself. For me, anyway.

But again, even with 1 and 2, there are times when I've produced great milk. Professional barista quality great? Probably not. But really, really good. Something I think even a professional would respect.

But the never knowing if it's gonna be that kind of morning or something far more disappointing, and having days, weeks, sometimes months before capps of greatness is starting to get to me! Any further tips, ideas?

Btw, David, your example above is very impressive, and very annoying

I have gotten great milk with a home machine (Gaggia Classic). I am using a 8oz cup for my lattes and when i pour milk into my pitcher i have a line that tells me exactly how much i need. I've found that the milk tastes best when the pitcher is filled to this level. If filled too much then I cant get a whirlpool going well enough.
you can get perfect mircofoam on a home machine but in my experiences you need to alter your techniques slightly and the quality may not be as constant on a domestic machine.

more recent pictures:

for the ladies


Can anyone tell me the best way to avoid these bubbles? I guess it was the milk that time. I got a big "scoosh" when i had it high in the pitcher before 20C so that might have been it. not a usual thing
pour milk, nice pour

Oh! and a real creamy latte. This was for someone that asked for a milky one (not much of a coffee lover)

Excellent examples (especially the ones new to the game). Good tips too.

I've been attmempting to create a rosetta for the past month via a gaggia classic...I was beginning to think it couldn't be done with that machine until I saw evidence...clearly my skills at fault.
I was making two 'cappa's' (one single in a 7 oz mug...I guess these are really lattes?!) but having a 350ml jug found that I had to make two lots of microfoam. Today I got hold of a larger jug (650ml - 20 oz) and not only am I able to fill two cups with milk but the microfoam has improved by some margin. I guess the smaller size jug created too much froth and heat too quickly (?) but I know I'm on the right track now.
I can now practice the art now the foam is just about there.

Still not sure I understand the difference between cappas and lattes - aside from the ratios, I cannot see (if you're microfoaming correctly) how you can split the milk from the foam...surely it's just one 'whole' product??

Yes - I've got the Silvia in mind over the next couple of weeks.
Beezer - I followed some advice I read in deepest, darkest internetland about turning the hot water switch on for a couple of seconds for evert 25/30 seconds of steaming - supposed to give unlimited steam and I've got to say it's been working a treat for me.
I usually always make two caps (again - these are singles so more like latte which the missus prefers) but found that in order to make enough for one the milk wasn't high enough up the jug for the wand to reach (I steam with just the little plastic tip by the way) - if the milk was any higher I'd end up foaming too much for one and would be left with a lot of waste. This new 650ml/20oz jug is an absolute blessing: not only can I steam enough for two (and that includes singles in a 7oz cup) but the microfoam has improved a heck of a lot.
Of course that may alter if I mod with the Silvia wand having a larger hole in which to steam with...

I ordered a latte at my usual coffee shop today instead of the cappuccino (this is a very good independent shop by the way). The difference for me was that the capp had a browner foam on top (and a sprinkling of chocolate and perhaps the foam was slightly thicker. The latte had a rosetta - aside from that they tasted almost identical. I guess the capp wasn't a 'traditional' given the 10oz cup size.

Cheers.

norfbech wrote:Excellent examples (especially the ones new to the game). Good tips too.

I've been attmempting to create a rosetta for the past month via a gaggia classic...I was beginning to think it couldn't be done with that machine until I saw evidence...clearly my skills at fault.
I was making two 'cappa's' (one single in a 7 oz mug...I guess these are really lattes?!) but having a 350ml jug found that I had to make two lots of microfoam. Today I got hold of a larger jug (650ml - 20 oz) and not only am I able to fill two cups with milk but the microfoam has improved by some margin. I guess the smaller size jug created too much froth and heat too quickly (?) but I know I'm on the right track now.
I can now practice the art now the foam is just about there.

Still not sure I understand the difference between cappas and lattes - aside from the ratios, I cannot see (if you're microfoaming correctly) how you can split the milk from the foam...surely it's just one 'whole' product??

Do you use the "foam enhancer" tip on your steaming wand? I removed the long part of it but kept on the part that fits to the wand itself and this seems to work a dream. Try to keep the wand high and barely hissing untill 20-25C then you need to find the right place in your jug with the wand at the right height to get a whirlpool going. i keep this going untill 45C then i tilt the jug towards me slightly with the wand running down the jug spout. this almost folds the milk in the back of the jug.
For me, that gets the best quality milk on a gaggia classic. I also use a motta milk jug (nothing too small or the milk heats too fast)

And if i was to serve a cappuccino at home it would be in a 6oz cup with microfoam, its all about the ratio for me.
At work, i would do thick (not foamy and full of air) so it sits on top but doesnt fill your mouth with cold foam when u go to drink, served with coco. latte in an oz cup with micro foam

davidr88 wrote:just a little update really, ive been trying a couple new things while pouring and have managed to get more consecutive in my pours.

Having said what I said earlier about the thick art layer, I find myself obliged to comment that this photo shows a great enhancement in that direction, that is, in the direction of producing a more-creamy and more-latte-like milk. One bad consequence however is that the rosetta is now too skinny to most people, but not to me as long as the milk is that creamy and presumably that good-tasting.

pavman wrote:... But then I checked out recent additions to this thread some months back to find at best I'm just cosmetically covering mistakes. Thanks Orwa! Worse, I checked out the video he refers to. It is amazing, and I've been trying to copy it in my own modest, unsuccessful way. Worse still, occasionally, I come close, which makes me think I'm about to reach another plateau. Then, next day? Dishwasher soap type stuff.

I am happy you thought what I said was useful!

Though most people would still believe in the two-phase steaming process, I noticed that Heather Perry (the American barista champion) steams the milk similar to Callaghan (with regard to the way of positioning the pitcher, the witnessed milk dynamics and the lack of intentional breakage of the milk surface). People as interested in the milk quality care much about tasting it, and so did this champion in the video I saw on YouTube when she insisted that the interviewer tastes the milk after it has been steamed (I always do that when I am into explaining to others how versatile milk is, and how it can be steamed into a molten ice-cream consistency and taste -when steamed with vanilla and sugar). I am glad you think it's appealing to believe that texturing only "cosmetically covers mistakes", which is exactly what I have come into after long experimenting. However, I have not yet fully understood the dynamics needed to produce a decent milk according to this single-phase steaming method. One thing I know is that the manner in which you immerse the steaming tip under the surface while you are turning the knob on is very important, and plays a vital role into the successful or the unsuccessful initiation of the steaming process. The reason why you can't now start with the tip immersed in the milk is because it would be then necessary to break the surface to initiate the process, which would violate the "no intentional breakage" principle. Not initiating the process successfully will lead into the production of only hot milk and no foam. All this doesn't mean that I do not happen to break the surface, although it is possible, but that it only happens accidentally and very briefly, while following a fixed steaming position/strategy from start to end.

davidr88 wrote:... Can anyone tell me the best way to avoid these bubbles? I guess it was the milk that time.

I was able to understand some of the possible causes of these bubbles in the place where I live. One easily-attributable cause in Saudi Arabia is the using of one of the condensed-milk-based or powder-based milk brands. These brands are incapable of maintaining any reasonable foam, where the milk foamy structure would very soon collapse into liquid, showing such aggregation of micro-bubbles into larger and larger bubbles over time (In this case the bubbles are very ugly and span the whole surface). I also noticed that the ability of long-life milk in Saudi Arabia to maintain its foamy structure is less than that of fresh milk (which in turn is less than real milk, which I have come to try in Jordan), and thus will show some bubbles and will also go back into liquid if you left it for a while. Other than that, I noticed that either darker or lighter or fresher roasts seems to contain substances (in the crema?) that cause large bubbles to form on the surface even when no such bubbles would form if you used a lighter or darker or a less-fresh roast , with the phenomenon in this case being only at the surface and not effecting the foamy structure of the milk underneath. These are only my vague observations so far, of which I am not totally sure but is only mentioning for the sake of sharing.

davidr88 wrote:Do you use the "foam enhancer" tip on your steaming wand? I removed the long part of it but kept on the part that fits to the wand itself and this seems to work a dream. Try to keep the wand high and barely hissing untill 20-25C then you need to find the right place in your jug with the wand at the right height to get a whirlpool going. i keep this going untill 45C then i tilt the jug towards me slightly with the wand running down the jug spout. this almost folds the milk in the back of the jug.
For me, that gets the best quality milk on a gaggia classic. I also use a motta milk jug (nothing too small or the milk heats too fast)

And if i was to serve a cappuccino at home it would be in a 6oz cup with microfoam, its all about the ratio for me.
At work, i would do thick (not foamy and full of air) so it sits on top but doesnt fill your mouth with cold foam when u go to drink, served with coco. latte in an oz cup with micro foam

Are you serving doubles or singles in the 6oz cup? So essentially at work (I'm guessing coffee shop?) you're making the foam thicker...or perhaps pouring a little of the microfoam off and holding the thicker foam back?

Aye - I ditched the large foam enhancer as soon as I used it the first time (soap suds). With the plastic tip I was getting nearly constant pretty good foam (with the 350ml jug). With the new 650ml (20oz) jug then it's improved almost straight away - and I guess as you say the smaller jug was heating the milk too quickly. I start the wand dipped in the milk somewhat before I turn on the steam then bring the tip to the surface for the remainder of the steaming/folding. The jug is angled and I'm seeing the whirlpool etc. With the smaller jug I often got the 'dip' a little out and created a few too many larger bubbles, which whilst easily knocked out produced a thicker, gloopier foam. I think I'm on the right track now...and the rosetta's are 'embryonic'. That's the next part to practice...photo's soon perhaps

Cheers.

and how it can be steamed into a molten ice-cream consistency

Perfect description! I was amazed when I came on this site then started practicing myself that this 'foam' is more of a cream than the frothy nonsense I was getting in most of the coffee chains. Rather than coffee then foam floating on top, I'm getting this completely different (and pretty fine) drink.
Still haven't made an espresso that I could fall in love with mind...

One thing I know is that the manner in which you immerse the steaming tip under the surface while you are turning the knob on is very important, and plays a vital role into the successful or the unsuccessful initiation of the steaming process. The reason why you can't now start with the tip immersed in the milk is because it would be then necessary to break the surface to initiate the process, which would violate the "no intentional breakage" principle.

Eek...I thought it was 'gospel' to immerse the tip as you turn the steam on (really to prevent milk splashing part of you and your kitchen). I can't think of another way of doing this..or can I...I notice when I steam successfully that the tip is almost hovering over the milk. I'll give this 'non immersion' technique a go, unless I've read you incorrectly?