I recently got hired at a local cafe, and I'm currently being trained on a La Marzocco Strada. Although I have no experience with a commercial machine, I've been making coffee on my Rancilio Silvia at home for about two years now. So I've grown really accustomed to the microfoam made on the Silvia.

I don't really know what I'm doing wrong with the Strada, 'cause the microfoam isn't as predictable when it reacts with the espresso.

For example, with the microfoam from my Silvia, I usually just pour high at the beginning, and as soon as I drop down the pitcher to start the latte art, the foam will sprawl out on the surface. This is very predictable for me, and it's consistent with all of my pours with foam from the Silvia.

In contrast with the Strada, the foam does not sprawl out or radiate outward at the speed I want it to... in fact, it's more like quicksand. I don't know if this attributable to the fact that I'm working with fresher crema on the LM or what...

It's really frustrating 'cause I'm used to doing some nifty stuff with a drastically inferior machine like the Silvia, yet on the Strada, it's like I'm learning how to do latte art all over again. If anything, I thought a commercial machine would make my life that much easier. Boy has this experience been humbling.

With the Silvia, I don't have to stretch much, but on the Strada, it seems like I have to stretch at least twice as long to get latte art foam. Yet when I go to pour, it comes out so thick, that I don't get the nice, glossy slender/hollow leaves on my rosetta. I want a lot of definition in my latte art, and I just keep getting mediocre, blurry rosettas.

Maybe I'll try stretching very little and then swirling/polishing the milk for a longer time? What works for you guys?

Here's a video of my latte art at home on the Rancilio Silvia... notice the foam shoots out as soon as I get near the surface to start the art.



Preferably I'd like to get consistency like these guys below... it seems close to what I'm getting at home, in that the milk starts radiating out as soon as the pitcher spout nears the surface. But their microfoam is superior, 'cause it has thinner leaves for more definition.




PS: I referenced the GS/3 on the subject, because it's comparable in design and function, and most LM owners here have a GS/3 as opposed to a cafe caliber Strada.

Wow. You really do a great job with latte art!

My experience has been that whenever I've changed the machine, the pitcher, the steam tip, the milk brand, etc., I have to learn how to produce microfoam all over again.

The Strada produces a lot more steam power than your Silvia, so it's a certainty that you have to modify your technique. You might also have to adjust for differences in the pitcher, brand of milk, etc. used at work.

It doesn't make a lot of sense that you have to stretch longer on the Strada. With greater steam power you shouldn't have to stretch anywhere near as long as you do on the Silvia. My guess is that your technique isn't right for the Strada, so you end up stretching longer to get any microfoam at all, and then it's way too thick.

Are you using the typical two-step process at home wherein you stretch the milk with the steam tip just under the surface, getting a "bacon frying" sound, then plunge the tip to texture and incorporate the foam? If so, try just texturing on the Strada. It's been noted here recently that the commercial machines have so much steam power that you really don't have to use a two-step process. Just sinking the tip a little under the surface, to the level where you would normally texture, draws in enough air to stretch the milk.

you'll get it. I've never used a Strada so I can't answer directly but I can say commercial machines are just different, and you just have to get a feel for them. Wand placement, angle, aeration, etc. is all slightly different. Once you get yourself dialed into the machine, it will be effortless. In the mean time yes it will probably be frustrating, but hang in there.

Is that a cereal bowl?

Try stretching only a little, but leaving the milk to 'settle' for 20 seconds or so, then swirl it and pour. It will thicken up in that time.

Wow! Those designs from Holly Brown's video are cool!!!! I'm going to try some of them!

As to the microfoam, just be patient. Commercial machines make great microfoam but everything happens much quicker and mistakes happen quicker too. Once you get the hang of the machine, it will hard to go back!

espressotime wrote:Is that a cereal bowl?

I guess it could be, heh. Then again, I use measuring cups as cereal bowls.

The cup is by Vertex, and it can hold about 12 oz. It's the cup Hiroshi Sawada used to win the 2008 Latte Art Championship, and he also has 'em at his cafe (Streamer Coffee).

So far, this is the best cup design that I've seen for latte art. It has a really wide mouth/canvas for latte art, while maintaining a low height... usually if you want cups with mouths as wide as this, you need some kinda 16 ouncer from the Disney store, and it's gonna be more tulip shaped as well.

In contrast, here's another video of me pouring into a strict 5 oz competition cappa cup from Intelli. Not as much room to get creative...



It would be great if Vertex would make smaller cups with the same design, but unfortunately, they don't. They do carry smaller cups, but again, they're more tulip shaped and not as ergonomic for art.

Peppersass wrote:Wow. You really do a great job with latte art!

My experience has been that whenever I've changed the machine, the pitcher, the steam tip, the milk brand, etc., I have to learn how to produce microfoam all over again.

The Strada produces a lot more steam power than your Silvia, so it's a certainty that you have to modify your technique. You might also have to adjust for differences in the pitcher, brand of milk, etc. used at work.

It doesn't make a lot of sense that you have to stretch longer on the Strada. With greater steam power you shouldn't have to stretch anywhere near as long as you do on the Silvia. My guess is that your technique isn't right for the Strada, so you end up stretching longer to get any microfoam at all, and then it's way too thick.

Are you using the typical two-step process at home wherein you stretch the milk with the steam tip just under the surface, getting a "bacon frying" sound, then plunge the tip to texture and incorporate the foam? If so, try just texturing on the Strada. It's been noted here recently that the commercial machines have so much steam power that you really don't have to use a two-step process. Just sinking the tip a little under the surface, to the level where you would normally texture, draws in enough air to stretch the milk.

I wouldn't recommend that technique, because it yields really inconsistent results, since you can't stretch by sound. I like to stretch by sound. Just by hearing the sizzle, I know if I've stretched sufficiently. What people are referring to, when they're talking about a "1-step" process, is more of a gurgle underneath the milk. The steaming process ends up being really volatile with this method. I'd have to see a great latte artist use this method with consistency before I embrace it. I imagine the milk probably won't be as homogenous either because you'd have to sink the tip really deep to counter the steam blast.

From my experience, you don't wanna sink the tip too deep, because it'll just end up blowing the lighter foam to the top. I like to stretch and then sink the tip maybe just 1/4" deeper. You end up getting maximum roll/blending of milk this way.

I think maybe I'll stretch a little less and then polish a little more. Or maybe stretch a little more and polish a little less. I don't know. I went at it again the other day, and I really didn't get any better. BTW, we're only getting one-hour sessions per training day, but it's not an entire hour committed to latte art. At most, you're pouring six or seven times per session. I personally wish I can just go at it nonstop for a few hours to really experiment on my own. Unfortunately, it's not the way the owner operates, so I guess I'm really gonna have to learn on the job once I get some legitimate shifts under my belt.

I've been looking up some latte art done with the GS/3, but unfortunately, there are very few videos available on YouTube, and whatever's there, I've yet to see a pour that I'd aspire to emulate. They're all pretty mediocre, at least for my standards.

Maybe this is what you simply get with a GS/3... I've seen amazing art from a Linea at Streamer Coffee, but then again, I read somewhere that the Strada's steaming is different from anything La Marzocco's done with their older models like Linea and so on. Plus, who knows what kinda mods Hiroshi Sawada may have applied to his Linea. The guy's a master at latte art. I really wish there was a video of his full routine...

Anyway, here's the best pour I've seen from a GS/3 on YouTube. Notice how he just accelerates the pour until the liquids bash up against the back of the cup. This ends up washing out/flushing out the crema, allowing for a more glossy/lubricated surface. Worse comes to worse, you can employ this technique when you can't figure out your timing... but I find it kinda limiting as far as what you can do... and plus, something about it seems sloppy to me. I don't know though...



I'm gonna get to go in again tomorrow for another half hour or so. Hopefully I'll get a better feel for it, 'cause this stuff is keeping me up at night.

PS: Thanks for the compliment.

gyro wrote:Try stretching only a little, but leaving the milk to 'settle' for 20 seconds or so, then swirl it and pour. It will thicken up in that time.

From my experience, if you let it sit for too long, the final pour of your pour comes out kinda watery... let me know if this is consistent with your findings as well.

If you don't polish/swirl the milk, the initial part of your pour comes out watery and the final part of your pour comes out thick.

If you polish/swirl the milk too much, the initial part of your pour comes out frothy and the final part of your pour comes out watery.

Generally, I swirl for about 5 seconds and that separates the milk just enough so that the initial part of my pour is a bit thick. This is great for establishing a viscous foundation in your espresso. Now you can dive in for the latte art. The last ounce or two will end up watery, but hopefully by then, I'm done with the latte art and I just sink the rest of the "watery" milk through the surface/canvas.

mitch236 wrote:Wow! Those designs from Holly Brown's video are cool!!!! I'm going to try some of them!

As to the microfoam, just be patient. Commercial machines make great microfoam but everything happens much quicker and mistakes happen quicker too. Once you get the hang of the machine, it will hard to go back!

Thanks.

The frustrating part is, I don't believe I'm making any mistakes. I don't crank up the steam power all the way. I do it just enough to compare to the steam power on the Silvia, if not stronger. But I definitely don't go full blast with the steam power on the Strada, or it's gonna get messy pretty quick.

So my mistakes aren't perceivable, at least not by me or my trainer. We'll see, though... thanks for the encouragement.