genecounts wrote:I have done hundreds of steamings with a 12oz pitcher and 4oz milk. In fact that is only pitcher I have ever had. No prob using with La Spaz and Vario.
The pitcher I have is an Espro Toroid with the bump in the middle. I just start out at full blast, tip submerged about one inch off bottom and very rapidly pull the tip to the surface to finish the last 20 seconds. Very powerful. Makes really smooth tasty foam in approx 21 seconds total.
Makes my wife whole milk mixed with 10% French Vanilla crema and a few minutes later my non-fat.
Even the non-fat turns out great.

Come to think of it I have steamed 3oz with no prob at all---full blast all the way. A few times I have been distracted and milk went everywhere. Thats when I have turned on 4 hole tip prematurely without tip submerged. Strictly my fault.

Is there a way you can record a footage of this? I just can't fathom frothing 3 oz of milk on full blast.

Not saying I don't believe you, but I'd love to pick up some visual tips and pointers.

Psyd wrote:You don't say what type of machinery you're using. I do this at least twice a day on a 14 litre boiler two-group set at between .9 and 1.1 Bar.
In the beginning, I had the same issue with the five hole tip that came with the machine. I've simply stuffed toothpicks in four of the holes, and cut them flush with a razor knife. Three ounces does just fine. It's fast, but not any faster than twelve ounces with the other wand that still has all five holes.
If you're using a tip with more than one, try plugging the extras to find out if a one hole will do the job. If it does, you can either buy a one hole tip or stick (no pun intended) with the 'temporary' solution. I've replaced the toothpicks once in six years, and never had a problem.

Thanks, I'm using a Rancilio Silvia, so I don't think I need to worry about the steaming power, because I have an adjustable knob.

Still, I'm having a ton of difficulty finding that sweet spot.

another_jim wrote:I've got a machine on the bench now that is crazy three group fast, and does four ounces in five seconds. That is disconcerting at first; but now I'm hooked, and it will be hard to go back to 15 second steaming.

Use a 12 ounce jug, that's the right size

Purge the wand very thoroughly, at that speed, if you send in any water, you're toast.

Start with the tip at the bottom and engage the steam. Draw the tip up carefully until you get a roil. if you hear any if the the supposed frothing sounds like tearing or sucking, you're (soggy) toast.

Never hold the jug by the handle, you will have no control. Hold it at the rim and use a finger to test the bottom for temperature. Stop frothing as soon as it gets uncomfortably hot. The milk should be sweet and creamy like eggnog, not particularly foamy, when it is perfect. It will firm up after a few seconds, and at this steaming pace, the shot won't finish until after you've steamed, and cleaned and purged the wand (benefits of speed).

So enjoy, insanely fast steaming can be fun.

I'm using a Silvia, so the steaming function is not as good as your machine. I understand that the higher end machines don't require the "tearing sound" to necessarily froth milk. In my case though, if I don't hear any of the "tearing," I'm gonna end up with watery milk and terrible latte art.

That said, the fact that you can steam 4 oz in 5 seconds with a good outcome is mighty impressive.

cannonfodder wrote:You have to get a smaller pitcher to start with. I have a 6 (or is it 8oz) pitcher and I steam 4oz of milk in it without issue. Your pitcher needs to be about twice the size of the amount of milk you wish to steam. If it is much larger you do not get enough depth and blow the milk everywhere. If it is less than that you may boil the milk over the pitcher as you stretch it. My machine has ball valves so I can adjust how much steam is released by how far I move the valve. The standard compression fitting is much less variable. They are usually off, or on with little between. The easiest thing to do, aside getting a smaller pitcher which you need anyway, is to turn down the boiler. If you have a double boiler that change has little effect on anything else. On a heat exchanger your flush routine will change. You can also get a smaller steam tip. Something like the Gold pro 2 hole steam tip will throttle down the amount of steam and extend your working time.

Thanks, I couldn't find a 6 oz on Amazon when I was looking up pitchers...

I agree with the advice on depth. Right now, I'm steaming at an angle to create more depth on one side... the side where I insert the steam wand.

But again, I'm still having difficulty finding the sweet spot. It's either too watery or too bubbly... or the milk is not homogenous when I pour it for latte art.

Thanks everyone for all the pointers and advice.

I'm gonna keep working on it and hopefully, I'll be able to dial in on a technique that works for the Silvia.

I feel like I'm learning how to froth milk all over again...

bigbad wrote:That's just mindbogglingly impressive.

I tried it. Works great!
Super fast, blink and you've gone too far.

I've been working on my technique, and the good news is, I've finally found a way to steam milk without excess bubbles or a watery consistency.

But the bad news, separation in the milk. The foam on top is too thick, so it's impossible to do latte art. I'm obviously not incorporating the foam into the milk with less steam power... and if I crank up the pressure, it doesn't matter how I situate the pitcher. The milk starts to blubber.

At this point, I'm feeling pretty defeated. If anyone's willing to provide visual aid of foaming 4 oz that results in latte art, I'd seriously appreciate it.

So far I've done pleny of searches, and there seems to be little to no steaming videos of a scant 4 oz quantity. Just about every latte art tutorial shows the person using a 20 oz pitcher that's at least half-filled and then pouring it into a smaller pitcher for art...

I've also seen 2008 U.S. Barista Champ Kyle Glanville steaming on a 12 oz pitcher for the Intelligentsia Cappuccino video. Even he seems to need around 8-10 oz of milk to get good foam. He claims to use just 5 oz of milk (1:50 of the video), but the pitcher is filled almost to the brim at 2:48...

Sorry, can't photo it unless its a still photo. Was wrong on time sequence, i was talking subjectively. After purging steam and inserting wand to bottom, with 4 ounces it takes 21 seconds.
With three ounces about fourteen. From the time you start steam it takes three seconds to stretch to top and approx 11 seconds in very center of cup(if steaming three ounces) so you keep stream in very center of Espro "nub" during entire sequence.... Since I have an incremental knob I'm guessing its about full blast. It don't have enough power to steam if you just crack it open.