I have posted the following at coffeegeek.com (link), but just in case there are some that do not frequent that site, I though I would also post my question up here:

First off, I am new to the whole espresso thing, and this is my first post. I am using my father's Krups steam machine that is similar to a "Krups FND111 Allegro Espresso Maker" (I know, this isn't real espresso).

My goal is to produce some latte art. I have read up on the guides on proper frothing techniques and downloaded some videos. I have varied the amount of stretching during frothing from minimal to copious. I cannot seem to achieve anything close to the latte art that I have seen.

My question is this: Is it possible to achieve latte art with a steam machine that I am using? This machine does not produce any real crema. Is crema required for latte art?

You're asking the wrong questions, unless you don't drink coffee, but just watch it.

If you're on a budget, give your taste buds a big break; buy a grinder, fresh coffee and a regular brewer.

As far as micro-foam goes, a steam toy will allow you to create it for 3 to 4 ounces of milk provided the hole design on the wand is correct

As I confessed in Hall of Shame: ''What I did when I was a newbie", my countertop once sported a similar setup. I could steam some pretty good milk, but in hindsight, it was bitter brew masked with lots of milk and capped with dry foam. Bleech. Had I known then what I know now, I would have skipped the steam toy and instead enjoyed years of far superior coffee from an inexpensive grinder (e.g., Solis Maestro) and French press.



Early days of HB's Bench included a Krups "steam toy"

Thanks for the info. I have read up more, and it appears that I really need to focus on the coffee first. I will start saving up for a good grinder. And, I will read through that newbie thread that was posted to learn from past experience. Thanks for your help.

I have to reinforce the above message. I spent years with relatively low budget machines and crappy grinders. Until I finally broke down and bought a Mazzer Mini and a Expobar Office Lever and got serious about learning what was possible. The quality of my espresso was bitter and the foam in my drinks was what David Schomer refers so aptly to as "sea foam."
With the right equipment it was amazingly easy to learn the proper techniques and taste the difference.
As an example, here is a lesson I learned this weekend. I ran out of my usual beans, Sicilian Blend from Forza. I defrosted and used my LaVazza beans which are stored in vacuum jars in the freezer. The grind came out clumpy and irregular. The espresso had lots of crema but was bitter and would not brew in the proper times. It was either too fast or too slow. The lesson, freezing is okay for drip and even French Press, but espresso requires freshly ground, fresh roasted beans. I bought fresh beans yesterday, and this morning I had two cups of Ambrosia, there is no better word for a perfect latte.

randompacking wrote:
My question is this: Is it possible to achieve latte art with a steam machine that I am using? This machine does not produce any real crema. Is crema required for latte art?

You can bully a steamtoy into making half-decent espresso, and yes, with crema. Not great crema, but crema none-the-less.
If I have to (and that's 'have to') go somewhere for any length of time and I can't get Silvia to come with me, I'll drag along the steamtoy. Rocky if I can, but the Krups burr grinder in a pinch. It'll make an adequate (but just barely) double capp, and is far better than most espresso shops in most lobbies (five for five out of the last five hotels I had to take it to). I tried a 'JavaJoes in the lobby of the hotel I was in this week, and the Krups kicked it's butt, along with the butt of the Starbucks in the neighboring hotel.

Psyd wrote:I'll drag along the steamtoy. Rocky if I can, but the Krups burr grinder in a pinch.

I thought I was the only one, Chris.
I usually drag my Krups 989 along with me to hotels. The real kicker is that I triple-bag the MACAP MC4 and its 20lbs of muscle for travels as well. I guess that's a little overkill...kind of like bringing a mammoth to a small petting zoo.
Back to OP, I've done latte art from the Krups, it's not easy but with a lot more patience it can be done (without the STUPID frothing aid).
With the right blend, a good grinder and tamper, the Krups with its little hairy-chested pump can outdo most commercial machines in front of inexperienced operators.
...but we all know that.

Niko wrote:I thought I was the only one, Chris.
I usually drag my Krups 989 along with me to hotels. The real kicker is that I triple-bag the MACAP MC4 and its 20lbs of muscle for travels as well. I guess that's a little overkill...kind of like bringing a mammoth to a small petting zoo.

Bought one of my Mazzer Majors from a HB'er in Boston, and was going to DC, so I told her to ship it to the front desk. My associates were blown away that I had the Silvia and that monster in my room! Oh I wish someone would make a thing like Starbucks for good espresso...

Psyd wrote:My associates were blown away that I had the Silvia and that monster in my room!

Nice .
I bet the Silvia looked like a Zippo Lighter next to the Major.

Niko wrote:Nice .
I bet the Silvia looked like a Zippo Lighter next to the Major.

Next to the Robur, yeah. She holds her own with the Major, she just looks 'sporty'!