Hi guys,

I was simply curious what is so great about the vid. I agree we might not be the best audience, but it's always good to watch it nonetheless, who knows you might learn something.

I liked the majority of the vid, Kyle explained what happens in the basket in a simple way and it should let 'normal' people understand espresso a bit more. Things I did not like was the hand trick with the coffee which might suggest you should do the same and confuse people, the '30lbs of pressure' tamp and the redistribution which is not always necessary (preheating the cup probably falls under the same category). Besides those technical bits (everyone has their own prep technique) the main thing that was omitted was the coffee itself and the importance of good beans. Without that even super fine feeling grind won't get you anything.

Still I think it's a good vid, not too technical which would probably drive people away, but not too vague either.

Oh one more thing, don't you need to preheat the group on the GS LMs before pulling a shot if the machine has been sitting idle?

Regards,
dsc.

Tom, I think you make some interesting critiques, particularly that they didn't mention their coffees specifically and the importance that they play in the process. Kyle alludes to it, but I agree for new people that's what ought to be front and center before any of the rest of it.

dsc wrote:Oh one more thing, don't you need to preheat the group on the GS LMs before pulling a shot if the machine has been sitting idle?

I'm not sure about how cold-nosed the GS2 is, but I think that'd be a strange technical thing to bring up in the video. In any case, this particular GS2 is pretty hot-rodded with each group boiler independently PIDed; I wouldn't be surprised if it has seen some other enhancements as well, but regardless of that Kyle does demonstrate the use of a group clearing flush that should also help bring the group up to temperature.

There's some misunderstandings about this video

The video could serve as a reasonably good demonstration of what to look for as a tech judge in a barista competition. Tech judges also look at how closely competitors match doses and shot times for their multiple shots, but the single shot prep flow shown here is close to exemplary.

It does not show "elementary espresso making" (whatever that might be); it shows how well trained baristas make shots on high grade commercial equipment. The reason it does not apply to most home baristas is not that it's too elementary, but because most home set ups require a lot more hoop jumping before the shot is drinkable.

Kyle did a better video for teaching beginner home baristas how to work with lower level equipment a year or two ago.



He gives some pretty good tips for using a Silvia and Capresso grinder. The other video is more about using professional equipment, so it's probably of limited use for most home baristas, but it may inspire some people to give espresso a try.

dsc wrote:Things I did not like was the hand trick with the coffee which might suggest you should do the same and confuse people, the '30lbs of pressure' tamp and the redistribution which is not always necessary (preheating the cup probably falls under the same category). Besides those technical bits (everyone has their own prep technique) the main thing that was omitted was the coffee itself and the importance of good beans. Without that even super fine feeling grind won't get you anything.

1 - the "hand trick" is valuable and useful to learn.
2 - 30lbs of pressure for a tamp is considered by many a good idea with some coffees in order to get a specific style of shot - but what is more important is that it be consistent (ie "30lbs" rather than "just push on it in some way").
3 - distribution IS necessary unless you are using a modified Anfim or something of the like. Yes... I know you disagree. But you need to accept that you are a tiny minority on this one. If the video only showed things that EVERYONE agreed were true - it would be less than 1 second long and would show perhaps a quick flicker of a coffee bean before it went black.
4 - preheating the cup is best practices unless you have one of a few machines which keeps cups on top of it very warm.
5 - its a promo video from a very high end coffee roaster designed to sell their coffee. I think the obviousness of needing good coffee shouldn't have to be made even more present.

Still I think it's a good vid, not too technical which would probably drive people away, but not too vague either.

dsc wrote:Oh one more thing, don't you need to preheat the group on the GS LMs before pulling a shot if the machine has been sitting idle?

No. It's a saturated group, not an e61 type.

Correct me if I am mistaken. The older LM's had the brew water supply exiting the group to go through the flowmeter then back into the group. On those machines, a short flush would bring the banjo tube up to temperature and minimise the drop when the water exited the group. There is a mod to move everything back inboard in the group cap which would do away with that warm up flush. I have only used a few Marzoccos and never rebuilt one so I could be completely out in left field.

Forgot to add, I liked the video. I doubt it was intended as an espresso tutorial but an online commercial showcasing their Barista and coffee.

EPNW modified LM machines usually use the hybrid (Piero) group to avoid this.

Not every flush is for cooling, some are for cleaning. In barista competition, anyone not briefly flushing the group prior to the shot gets a point deducted. Intelly sponsors a lot of its baristas in competition, so conforming to the competition standard is presumably a part of their everyday in-store routine.

HB wrote:To clarify, this sort of meta-discussion is an ideal example of where PMs and e-mail are helpful (e.g., querying someone who may have inadvertently addressed the wrong person in a post). For reference, I prefer e-mail and my contact info is linked from the bottom of each page. Thanks.

I think you were being overzealous. Nik's addressing me in the context of the discussion was public, and so there is no reason why my question back to Nik could not be part of the public discussion. As I said, there was no tone of rancor in my posts at all. You said in your PM that you hadn't read the thread carefully, and yet you were chastising us about something you hadn't read carefully? BTW, when I tried to reply to your PM, the site would not let me do so; no mode of communication should ever be one-way (it we are concerned about etiquette/netiquette).