RapidCoffee wrote:If you cannot achieve a reasonably decent bottomless pour, you will never extract the best out of your coffee.

Peppersass wrote:Has this been proven in blind tastings?

The operative words are "reasonably decent". The SCAA cites pour times of 20-30 seconds as reasonable; it wouldn't take a blind taste test to spot a pour time that was unreasonably outside that range, say 10 seconds or 40 seconds. While "ugly" pours are sometimes tasty, there's no guarantee a "beautiful" pour will be. From the FAQ, The goal is great TASTING espresso, not great LOOKING espresso elaborates on this point.

For what it's worth, I use a bottomless portafilter because there's less to clean and to spot egregious lapses in my technique. Hey, it happens! But a nice looking pour is far from an assurance of a nice tasting espresso. For newbies, it's a good place to start since it clearly shows if the mechanics of their prep is problematic.

HB wrote:For what it's worth, I use a bottomless portafilter because there's less to clean and to spot egregious lapses in my technique. Hey, it happens! But a nice looking pour is far from an assurance of a nice tasting espresso. For newbies, it's a good place to start since it clearly shows if the mechanics of their prep is problematic.

This! Spouts hide many things...

RyanJE wrote:Does anyone else feel this way? I can be a bit OCD at times and can't for the life of me get what I "think" is an even extraction.

Single dose beans after weighing dose .1g scale
Grind into yogurt cup funnel and basket with Baratza vario
WDT with needle
Tamp with flat Espro calibrated tamper
Stock Crossland CC1 double basket, has slanted edges

1) You seem to have some good barista skills/knowledge
2) It is time to let go of your OCD like behaviors and....

Buy a better grinder.

Since I have moved from the Vario/Mahlkonig grinders to the Compak E10 OD all the old grinding issues are gone. The problem was not my distribution, tamping, baskets, dosing but my lack of desire/cash to buy a more expensive professional grinder. I simply thought it wouldnt be worth it, now I know better.

newrevolution123 wrote:Buy a better grinder.

Since I have moved from the Vario/Mahlkonig grinders to the Compak E10 OD all the old grinding issues are gone. The problem was not my distribution, tamping, baskets, dosing but my lack of desire/cash to buy a more expensive professional grinder. I simply thought it wouldnt be worth it, now I know better.

Wait, I thought Mahlkonig was a high-end grinder?

But I agree with the sentiments, "upgrading" from a Forte to a Ceado made a huge difference in my consistency.

I think the key phrase is "reasonably decent pour". While what that means is open to interpretation, I believe the sentiment is that if there are major visual flaws in the extraction, then you'll likely not have the best tasting shot. I think most of us are on board with that theory.

The gray area of "do I taste the difference" seems to refer to the small spurts and imperfections that are associated with a non-perfect bottomless pour. The point I was making is once I made it to this stage consistently in my technique, I just ditched the bottomless and starting training my palate to pull a better shot.

SonVolt wrote:Wait, I thought Mahlkonig was a high-end grinder?

But I agree with the sentiments, "upgrading" from a Forte to a Ceado mad a huge difference in my consistency.

I think that was said in regards to the Baratza Vario being branded as Mahlkonig outside of North America. So, the poster is saying upgrade from the Vario.

Although, I agree a better grinder may I help with your naked PF pours, the Vario is plenty capable of producing good shots, and pretty pours. Not all coffees are friendly to achieving the picturesque bottomless pour, but if you're not getting any good looking pulls with different coffees, I would reevaluate technique.

HB wrote:For newbies, it's a good place to start since it clearly shows if the mechanics of their prep is problematic.

And hence the title of my post. I am fairly certain it mostly me. That said, it does seem darker roasted blends are easier to pull than lighter. My current blend is not very dark, but I don't get why that would make things harder.

I empathize with the bottomless-induced OCD. That said, in my experience, the Baratza Vario did really well in terms of distribution. I got even pours out of it without additional prep. My super jolly required more work, e.g. WDT, and I'm now back to minimal prep with the K30.

All that said, you might consider simplifying your technique. I can cite no randomized test, but my impression is that less handling of grounds is better, not least b/c it provides an easier basis for repeatable technique and troubleshooting.

And it would help my sanity....

I'm going to try down dose to 16g and use Matt Pergers tapping method show around here. See how that works since it's as simple as it gets for me...

RyanJE wrote:And hence the title of my post. I am fairly certain it mostly me. That said, it does seem darker roasted blends are easier to pull than lighter. My current blend is not very dark, but I don't get why that would make things harder.

I noticed this comment - typically speaking the lighter roasted the coffee is, the finer you need to grind, and/or higher the dose needed. So, in general, SOE's are going to be less forgiving or more demanding of the grinder and technique. That's why a lot of times you'll see it recommended to stick to a friendly blend for awhile as you get started to get your technique down and have one less variable in the equation.

Are you able to post any pictures? That might be helpful in determining where your issues might be stemming from.