Hi fellows!

After many trials an errors I can get now a consistent excellent shot with a wide available bean This is what I consider a personal holy grail benchmark since the flavor is addictive for me and makes me go back for more

I got yesterday another bag of Lavazza beans after being successful previously. I went again through all the loops and I've verified what works and what doesn't. First I'll post the detailed measurements and then I'll describe the technique.

Lavazza Super Crema
10-11 grams in single LM basket
205F
extraction time: ~40 seconds
extraction volume 1 Oz

Results: chocolaty taste, mellow, very easy to drink, no brightness. Too weak to drink with milk.

Technique:

I have to use a very fine grind setting to achieve a long extraction time. In my Compak K10WBC I use a setting of 23 perpendicular to the front of the grinder. If I use a bigger setting the chocolaty effect will diminish and I'll get a 27" regular shot. Another important factor is the distribution technique. I have verified it and makes a difference. I use a regular funnel and a colander. I place the colander on top of the funnel and use a brush to push the grounds into the basket. After making a mountain, I flatten it by tapping it against the table. For this I use the double spout tip which gives me a stable point to tap evenly. If I don't use this technique, the flavor is different. This also helps me measure the quantity of coffee before hand and keep a good distribution. I have the coffee measured in a 1/4 cup before getting the portafilter out of the machine and then I dump the grounds into the colander. Temperature will also make a difference. I get better results in the 205F range. I dry the basket with a paper towel.

That's all.

Cheers

No offense, but your instructions for excellent shots with Lavazza should start something like: open bag, dump in trash, order fresh beans from an artisan roaster. Really, it will such a difference you will be amazed. I would highly recommend ordering some coffee that has been roasted within a week. Lavazza and Illy spend months in warehouses and shipping containers. I suppose if you live in Italy and are close to the roaster you could probably get some freshly roasted but for the rest of us it has long gone stale.

I didn't want to comment first.

My comment would have been something snarky about the $1400 grinder and old, stale beans.

Arpi wrote:Results: chocolaty taste, mellow, very easy to drink, no brightness. Too weak to drink with milk.

Have you compared Lavazza against artisan coffees available online? I think you may find freshly roasted coffees available in the US more interesting than "chocolaty taste, mellow, no brightness."

well, there is theory and then there is truth. The practical truth is that I get excellent flavor out, so you guys may consider revising your "stale theory" That's my explanation

I am not saying that fresh beans are bad. Maybe I have a 'personal' predilection for this flavor, that's all.

Look at the bright side. Your beans are so old and stale that you'll never have to adjust the grinder!

jeje Look at my bright side, I'll be enjoying my espresso the way I like it most,

Enjoy your fresh beans

Ha, ha, can't argue with that!

Many, many years ago, I used to buy Lavazza at Three Brothers on Kenilworth Ave. Good times.

I actually never tried Lavazza till I got the Brewtus in Christmas (it came free). I tried them and didn't like them. I also recommended people to throw them away if they got the new brewtus based on the consensus of the 'staleness theory.' One day, I run out of beans and played with it. Somehow I got lucky that day and that sparked my curiosity and the search for the favorable conditions.

Cheers

Arpi wrote:well, there is theory and then there is truth. The practical truth is that I get excellent flavor out, so you guys may consider revising your "stale theory"

I believe you! What you describe (chocolaty taste, mellow, no brightness) sounds about right for Lavazza, but that's not something that excites me. For what it's worth, my tastes have changed over the years. What I considered the cat's meow years ago now seems a bit boring.

I know what you mean. When I first started with espresso, I had little tolerance for brightness and acidity. After many straight shots I got used to that. But if I give friends now a bright shot they make strange faces meanwhile I tell them that I 'know' that's good and that's supposed to be like that. There is a certain evolution to the appreciation of espresso. As long as you like the beans enough to go back and back for more, then I would consider that as a sign that those beans are good for the time being, but maybe not forever.

Cheers

So, 30 mL out of 10-11g of coffee in 40 s? It sounds like a ristretto, but I believe your brew ratio indicates something more like a lungo, or perhaps right on the cusp of normale and lungo. I'd be impressed if you can get that long without blonding, but I guess that's why you got the Compak K10.

If you enjoy it, good for you. If you like that profile (heavy chocolate, no brightness), I strongly, strongly recommend Gizmo Espresso from PT's. It's like a magic bean; I've never had something roasted so dark taste so good. It's chocolate like your notes, with super-heavy sweetness. I think you'd like it in a shot... I liked it in a macchiato/short cappuccino best. I bet your K10 would render it like my Robur, with just a slight hint of well-controlled acidity that makes it much more interesting.

Thanks for the recommendation Shadowfax! Looks like that would be my personal predilection at this time.

Cheers

Hi Rafael, Its great that you have found a coffee you enjoy, thats the goal of a lot of the people here.

Arpi wrote:I know what you mean. When I first started with espresso, I had little tolerance for brightness and acidity. After many straight shots I got used to that. But if I give friends now a bright shot they make strange faces meanwhile I tell them that I 'know' that's good and that's supposed to be like that.

Everyone goes through different "stages" of coffee bean exploration and you are taking some first steps that is always interesting to experiment with. I think that after some time you may feel you want to try other blends or types of coffees to see how they might fit or expand your taste.

shadowfax wrote:
If you enjoy it, good for you. If you like that profile (heavy chocolate, no brightness), I strongly, strongly recommend Gizmo Espresso from PT's. It's like a magic bean; I've never had something roasted so dark taste so good. It's chocolate like your notes, with super-heavy sweetness. I think you'd like it in a shot... I liked it in a macchiato/short cappuccino best. I bet your K10 would render it like my Robur, with just a slight hint of well-controlled acidity that makes it much more interesting.

I agree with the recommendation of shadowfax about PT's Gizmo Espresso. I've tried it a couple times and enjoyed the chocolate notes with a little bite on the end. I have a tendency to get bored easily and want to try something new, so I order something different every couple of weeks from various roasters just to see whats out there, buts thats just me.

A couple more beans that you might want to try that I have really liked are Caffe Fresco's Ambrosia Espresso Blend and Counter Culture Coffee's Espresso La Forza blend. Another one I highly recommend is Paradise Roaster's Espresso Classico, more of a medium roast but some VERY interesting flavor combos, one of the best in my book. I think you'll find these fun to try and experiment with and who knows, you may go back for more!

Arpi wrote:I am not saying that fresh beans are bad. Maybe I have a 'personal' predilection for this flavor, that's all.

That could be! We all have our own personal taste preferences -- that's why no one size fits all . . .

On the other hand, you ARE the only person on record for preferring stale Lavazza over freshly roasted beans. This could/should give you something to think about, as well as explain why are the rest of us continue to be skeptical and/or offer suggestions of specific roasters to try.

Arpi,

Remember when you thought your Breville was delivering good shots? Because you had not had better you had nothing to compare what the Breville was delivering in the cup and thought it was good stuff. Then you splurged and upgraded A TON!! Now you have an extremely capable machine and grinder and are getting the most out of what Lavazza has to offer. You've just upped your baseline for what constitutes a good shot. Now you owe it to yourself to branch out and try some of the suggestions above...and let me add one more - Cafe Fresco's Daterra Reserve; great as a straight shot or macchiato.

Using Lavazza beans in your setup is like having a Ferrari with a restrictor on the gas pedal, only allowing partial throttle. If you hopped into it from a Geo Metro you'd no doubt think you were now flying. You'll find the difference between Lavazza and high quality artisan beans about the same analogy wise. Like others said, you need to try the good stuff (fresh beans), but be forewarned that you'll need to adjust your grinder to a more coarse setting that what you are using for the Lavazza or you'll most likely end up choking your machine.

Enjoy the journey.

But I've already tried _many_ fresh and famous blends. The second I like most 'at this time' is Blackcat but only in Lattes (double basket). I am too lazy to try to convince people that know a lot!

I have an even sillier Lavazza experience... preground Lavazza on a Synesso.

My sister-in-law was recently given some Lavazza pre-ground, carried from Italy by some of her relatives. Knowing that I am an espresso aficionado, she kindly sent me some. Unsolicited, of course.

The package has a blue label. All writing is in Italian, and I could not clearly identify a roast or "use by date." Hard little brick of ground coffee -- the vacuum had not been broken. Good.

I opened the bag. There was almost no odor. Not a good sign. The colour was appropriate for Northern Italian style roast. The fineness of grind was appropriate for, if fresh, a low dose extraction. I had no illusions of freshness here, so I filled the Synesso double basket, leveled, tamped and locked.

My line pressure is at 3.5 Bar, approximately. Flow occurred immediately on preinfusion, and got faster when turning on the pump. Biggest gusher EVER. Luckily it all went down. I pulled a 60 mL double in 4 sec. Impressive! *bux should do this to improve throughput. White bubbles of faux crema (almost none) the likes of which I have not seen since my Krups Novo days, before making the PF bottomless and unpressurized.

I tasted it.

Let me be very clear here. This liquid was not espresso, or anything like it. It reminds me a bit of Aeropress coffee, but weaker due to staleness. There is no mouthfeel whatsoever. No oil, no acid, no crema. All base notes. Chocolate and indistinct sweetness only. Actually very nice tasting, sweet boring coffee. There was nothing bad tasting about it. It was not espresso by any definition, but it was pretty good coffee. Not in the academic, analytical sense, but just in a nice warm, sweet, "tastes like coffee" kind of way. If I had the opportunity to try the same coffee as whole bean, fresh, I would. It might actually be good, if you like that kind of coffee. (I really don't, preferring complexity and high notes.)

I could not taste any robusta nasty flavor. Perhaps this had evaporated as well.

I tried an updosed triple, just using preinfusion, and it came out in 8 seconds 60 mL, tasting identical. This will never be espresso, clearly. I'll use the rest in an Aeropress or as food for the worms. Any good espresso machine is overkill for this coffee. Maybe it works better with steam toys and PPFs or Moka pots.

And now... back to the good stuff! (presently Caffe Fresco Ambrosia- mmmmmmmm)

-Mike

I did had a similar experience one time Don't remember the exact blend, maybe CC Toscano, It came out fast and watery, light colour, no much crema, but somehow it was as if I had washed the sugar out of the beans. If anybody had seen in life it would look as if it would taste really bad. That would have been a very challenging shot to prove with theories jeje

Cheers