Don't know much and I cannot formulate theories. All I can say is that tomorrow morning I'll do it again and I will try to meticulously describe the flavor and try to point out why I like it as compared to other blends. But all this 'prove' is kind off deviating my motivation to enjoy it and putting my attention in elevating my liking as correct. Whatever comes next is just going to be justifications a posteriory from my part.

Cheers

If it suits you than enjoy it in good health. Once upon a time I thought Illy was the best thing on the planet but tastes change. I find myself looking for that unusual blend that grabs my interest for a couple of weeks then start looking for the next eye opener.

I've been really busy with the move, new job etc. so I don't have half the time I need to respond properly. I'll just say that I've had a lot very good espresso made with commercially-roasted Italian beans over the past 10 months. I doubt many of those responding to the OP have gotten a properly-sealed bag of Lavazza and made a serious attempt to dial it in and make espresso. Its the same response syndrome that any poster gets if their machine or grinder costs less than an SUV.

Really, a bunch of home baristas who have, maybe, been making espresso for an average of 10 years, think they can roundly critique an espresso roaster who's been at it for 50 years or so. When Italian beans are properly sealed they retain some level of freshness, and can be surprisingly good. Perhaps this is due to their long-term experience in blending and roasting? Kind of like the difference between English Real Ale and American microbrew, if any of you know what that means.

Ciao,
PC



PS, these Lavazza IPA cups are really some of the best espresso and cappa cups around.

Jack, Jack, Jack . . .

peacecup wrote:I doubt many of those responding to the OP have gotten a properly-sealed bag of Lavazza and made a serious attempt to dial it in and make espresso.

Let's say that you are correct, and that all the $#!++> cups of Lavazza people have had here in the States is because the bag was not "properly sealed," does that speak more to the talent (or lack thereof) of the individual pulling the shots, or does it speak more to the quality control (or lack thereof) of the bagging operations at Lavazza?

Perhaps their QC when it came to sealing bags used to be crap but has dramatically improved in the last 12, 24, or 36 months (take your pick). Do you realistically expect people who have tried Lavazza and moved on to _____________, ________________, or ________________ (pick three local coffee roasters of your choice near where you lived in the US before the move to Sweden) are going to go back?

Tell ya what I'm gonna to do . . .

The next time I run out of coffee -- which does happen from time to time when I misjudge my "order more" date -- instead of running off to buy a half-pound of Peet's (or something else from a roaster similarly convenient to my commute), I will swing by one of the local markets that offers Lavazza in whole bean and (as long as it's not a kilo), I'll check it out.

Now, moving on . . .

peacecup wrote:Really, a bunch of home baristas who have, maybe, been making espresso for an average of 10 years, think they can roundly critique an espresso roaster who's been at it for 50 years or so.

How is this any different from wine critics criticizing (e.g.) Moet & Chandon, when they started in 1743? Do they get a pass? At what point does a home barista get to say, "I think this sucks!" -- after 5 years, 10 years, 25 years? At what point does one trust their taste buds when they say "yum" or "yuck" to a cup of espresso, cappuccino, latte, or whatever . . . How it is any different than tasting a wine, or tasting food prepared by a certain chef?

Granted, Jack, making espresso is different: it's the barista (pro, experienced amateur, brand "newbie") who makes the coffee, versus pulling a cork or picking up a fork. But if you're giving the "bunch of home baristas" an average of 10 years experience, I think that's long enough for them to be able to say "yum" or "yuck" with some conviction, don't you?

peacecup wrote:When Italian beans are properly sealed they retain some level of freshness, and can be surprisingly good. (Emphasis added - jbl)

"Some" being the operative word, I should think. Hence the "surprise," perhaps?

peacecup wrote:Kind of like the difference between English Real Ale and American microbrew, if any of you know what that means.

As a former card-carrying member of CAMRA -- yes, I do know what it means.

peacecup wrote:When Italian beans are properly sealed they retain some level of freshness, and can be surprisingly good. Perhaps this is due to their long-term experience in blending and roasting? Kind of like the difference between English Real Ale and American microbrew, if any of you know what that means.

So, English Real Ale is a better product that travels better than American craft (prefer the term to micro) brew because the Brits have been doing it longer? I'd have to disagree.

As a member of CAMRA, a cellarman for the Real Ale Festival that had been held in Chicago, a cellarman for the Chicago Beer Society's Night (and now also Day) of the Living Ales, and one who makes at least one trip to the UK each year to drink cask ale, I have some experience with Real Ale (UK and American made). I'm also quite familiar with American craft brews; being involved with organizing numerous tastings and competitions, including the Festival of Barrel and Wood Aged Beers.

Cask ale is best within a short time of its brewing. Also, once the cask is broached, an even shorter window (3-4 days) exists for an optimal product. In contrast, American craft beer is often served as a draft product which pretty much extends its serving life indefinitely (not actually but nearly so in comparison to cask).

I'd relate roasted coffee that is properly packaged to cask ale because it has a finite window of optimal life both while sealed and once opened. The experience of the roaster (or brewery) may (or may not - think A-B Budweiser) put a better product in the package but I wouldn't necessarily expect something meant to be consumed fresh to be better if shipped around the globe than obtained locally just because the folks making it have been doing it longer. I'd think enthusiastic "kids" would be able to produce an equal or better product than the old-timers who may have gotten stuck in a rut and, all other things being equal, proximity to the production facility (i.e. freshness) wins out.

Joe

Arpi wrote:But I've already tried _many_ fresh and famous blends. The second I like most 'at this time' is Blackcat but only in Lattes (double basket). I am too lazy to try to convince people that know a lot!

Save a boatload of time and effort with a Nespresso and the Roma blend, not to mention about 4 grand.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=lavazza&x=0&y=0

Then, how come people like it so much? Are they wrong? Are they uneducated? Don't they know better?

Arpi wrote:Then, how come people like it so much? Are they wrong? Are they uneducated? Don't they know better?

Budweiser, Miller, and Coors are some of the most consumed beers in the world. Some people have determined those are what they like. Are they the best beers? Not by a longshot to me and a small but passionate segment of folks looking for something better. The same goes for coffee. Many people are happy with Folgers, Starbucks, McDonalds, Dunkin' Donuts, etc. The folks here generally want something else.

To each their own, IMO.

As was previously posted:

cannonfodder wrote:If it suits you than enjoy it in good health.

yeah, but don't those _many_ reviews contradict the 'staleness theory' I was bombarded with? If it is stale why does it have 5 stars?

Fist I post how I come up with a way which produces something I like, something that I consider 'addictive.' Then I get showered by opinions that tell me to throw the beans away because apparently I don't know better and espresso is not supposed to taste that way. Try fresh beans. The beans are stale. Throw them away. Then someone even says that if I like those espresso beans then I should not have spent $4000 in equipment??? pfff.