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How to get a full body taste with low end espresso machine? - Page 3

Postby HB on Fri Jan 01, 2010 2:03 am

SimonSoCal wrote:...what give you the idea of the burrs issue based on the look of the shots?

They look pale and unextracted; such espresso have a dull, thin, sourish taste. Dull burrs can cause this, though I consider the coffee the primary suspect. For example, some new baristas will buy coffees with Italian names and brand recognition, then assume the coffee is fresh because it was opened only a week or two ago, despite that it was likely roasted a couple months ago. Starbucks' "freshly scooped on" dating is yet another twist in freshness claims. Bottom line: If they don't prominently publish roast date, more than likely it's not fresh, despite the usage of fancy one-way valves.

As for your other queries, a few moments with the search page should lead you to previous answers of the same questions (see Forum search tips as needed).
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Postby zin1953 on Fri Jan 01, 2010 4:49 pm

A morning without coffee is sleep. -- Anon.
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Postby erics on Fri Jan 01, 2010 4:57 pm

Here's a good link on the Barista espresso machine including portafilter operation - http://www.partsguru.com/SaecoRioProfi.html.
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Postby cannonfodder on Fri Jan 01, 2010 9:41 pm

Boy those are ugly looking shots. Resembles the early days in my journey down the espresso path. I use to get Illy beans, had a cheap ebay machine and a kitchenaid grinder. The machine was junk, my grinder garbage and my beans good for feeding to the worms. I use to get similar looking shots. I would put money on the beans or a massive meltdown on the dose. The grinder, even with worn burrs, should produce something better than that. While I do not subscribe to puckology as a good method of diagnosing what is going on, that crater in the middle of the puck looks bad but it could be a side effect of your 3-way valve. I would start with a good pound or two of coffee from a good roaster. Any of the HB sponsors are good places to start with. They are all reputable roasters. Cold brew temperatures will also produce a sour watery and weak espresso.
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Postby JmanEspresso on Mon Jan 04, 2010 1:51 am

As a suggestion for Burrs.. Chris' Coffee, I believe, has the best prices on Mazzer Burrs. i think I paid 54, plus tax as Im in NY, for the Major burrs. SJs, IIRC, are 45.

There is some good discussion on the Duranium burrs here. I believe Great Infusions sells them.


However.. Your main concern right now, should be coffee.

There is no way you will get even passable results, with anything but FRESH, Artisan Roasted Coffee. No way around it. Coffee is produce, and as such, should be treated like other produce. You wouldn't eat a Banana that has been sitting in your fruit bowl for six months.. so why drink coffee which has been sitting in warehouses/on shelves for the same amount of time?

14 days is the END of life for beans. You want to be using them somewhere between 4-10 days, generally.

On the Home Page of this website.. in the upper left corner, under the HB logo... Is pictorial links, most of which are to coffeeroasters. Clicking refresh, will give you a new roaster.
-OR-
Go to the "coffee" forum, and click on the "list of our favorite roasters" thread. Lots of good roasters there.
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Postby Chiara's Dad on Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:08 am

I'm routinely getting full-bodied shots with low-end equipment (Zassenhaus hand-cranked mill and Gaggia Classic), so I promise you it's possible. And not even hard once you figure out where things are going wrong.

Like earlier posters, I'm prone to suspecting your coffee is the most limiting factor right now. To me your shots look rather cloudy, which to me suggests dried-out fines -- basically dead-tasting coffee dust -- making its way past your portafilter and into the shot. It's common with supermarket/chainstore beans that can be pretty old by the time you buy them.

You've probably read elsewhere on this site about stopping the shot when (or shortly after) the shot begins 'blonding.' The light, single-colored crema in your pictures looks to me like it was blond from the very start of the pour. That's another thing that makes me think the goodness was already gone from your coffee beans before you even started your shot.

You can't really know whether your grinder needs an upgrade (nor your technique) until you're working with good coffee. Personally, with my limited equipment, I get good results only with fresh beans from artisan roasters. Fresh beans for me means under two weeks old, and really at two weeks the shots I'm getting are semi-passable but not longer really a pleasure. For me the max age for a truly happy shot is maybe 9 to 11 days.

Since you've visited Intelligentsia I'll also mention that - with my limited equipment - I haven't had very good luck with Intelligentsia Black Cat. It's fantastic coffee and deservedly well thought of, but my own at-home success rate with it, when I lived in the USA, was rather low. Your experience may vary, of course, but as one lower-end-equipment barista to another, if you have trouble with Black Cat, try some other roasters before you decide you can't get a full-bodied shot without higher-end gear. (I used to live in NorCal and got lovely results with Barefoot's 'The Boss', but you have lots of options, some of which will surely be closer to home.)

Look for roasters that you can buy from regularly on a two week cycle or less, which may well mean mail order. (Where I live now, I get mail-order artisan beans midmorning the day after roast, at a shipping cost that beats going to fetch them. Not a bad system.)

Once you are working with good beans, you should see an immediate change in the quality of your results. At that point you can work on the technical details - dose size, grind, and tamp - to see what works well with your coffee, grinder, and machine.
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Postby timo888 on Tue Jan 05, 2010 12:35 pm

HB wrote:Starbucks' "freshly scooped on" dating is yet another twist in freshness claims. Bottom line: If they don't prominently publish roast date, more than likely it's not fresh, despite the usage of fancy one-way valves.


YASFC (yet another spurious freshness claim): The "bin filled on date" at WholeFoods.
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Postby erics on Tue Jan 05, 2010 2:15 pm

Well, this is just another reason to "put the key in the ignition" and travel to Fairfax, VA to this particular Wholefoods http://www.wholefoodsmarket.com/stores/fairlakes/ where they will roast your choice of about 20 beans in a large-scale air-roaster(?) and you can enjoy a delicious lunch or dinner at bargain basement prices while you wait. This is the store that Emeril Lagasse does all his "Emeril Green" shows from.
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Postby SimonSoCal on Tue Jan 05, 2010 6:12 pm

Thank you guys for continue to give valuable comments.
I started another thread Please critique my espresso...
I think the comments are correct, that my machine is not brewing hot enough [stop at 200*F] and I need more tools.

So far, I have ordered:
New burrs for my SJ
Got a digital scale
Order wine preserver recommended by Drdna to extend the life of freash beans.

Things need to do:
Find a better roaster- or go get it from Klatch 's
Make a trip to visit one of senior barista here to learn more about espresso making..
In search for a better machine....I'm actually daunting S1 VII :lol: :lol:
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