Hi everybody,

just two weeks ago I received an early Christmas present when my La Spaziale Vivaldi II and my Versalab M3 grinder arrived.

So far the experience with both machines has been amazing and my shots have been pretty good, but I am still struggling to make the shift from a E61 machine to the VII and find the perfect coffee dose. I remember reading a very good article on how to find the right dose for a machine using a quarter on top of the ground coffee to determine the headspace between the coffee puck and the shower screen. Now I can no longer find the article any longer though... Has anybody come across this article and could point me to it?

Thanks,
Phillip

The next time you want your quarter to drink the shot, you can use this technique.

If you prefer to drink the shots yourself; dose more if the blend you are using tastes bland, with subdued sour high notes and bitter low notes, and dose less if the sour and bitter notes are exaggerated.

Consistent dosing, once you've found the right dose, can be done in a number of ways. Using a 1/10th gram scale is the easiest.

All this is described in the FAQs

That was in the VBM DomobarSuper bench review. I used a nickel to help find the starting dose for a single basket. It was to determine head space and find a starting point for dosing. Single shots are very touchy when it comes to dose. If you do not have a scale, it may be a good idea to pick one up while you learn your dosing. The nickel trick is not something you want to do then pull a shot with the same dose.

I too just switched, from an E-61 HX, to the Vivaldi II.

One of the main things I was getting used too the first week or so, was dosing and distribution. Its a different ballgame on the VII compared to the E-61. Different, but not harder(IMO anyway).

I used to be dosing in the 18-20gr range on the E-61... Doing that right out of the box with the VII, and I was having trouble, getting donut shots pretty consistently. So, I dropped the down down to 14grs, got out my WDT stuff, and, most importantly, focused on a proper side seal. Doing that produced all around great looking shots.. but some blends screamed for more coffee. The past two weeks or so, Ive been in the 15-17gr range with good results.

Compared to the 58mm baskets, you're going to think you don't have enough coffee in the basket.. a 15gr dose is nicely below the baskets ridge, and gives you nothing resembling a puck when you knock it out. I have yet to have one solid puck, but the shots are tasting better then ever.

Ive come to the(possibly premature) conclusion, that the VII is like the Elektra's, in that it likes headspace, and doesn't tolerate updosing like an E-61 does. Looking at the dispersion blocks of the two machines, Im thinking Im correct, in some way at least. But, regardless of the similarity, allowing for more headspace really made things come together for me. VII likes headspace.

On some of the lower doses, I find myself pulling shots a bit tighter and shorter then I normally would have... But the dose is also lower then it would have been. I think the reason why Im tightening up the pull, is to compensate for a lower dose, to get an extraction ratio similar to what I got with a higher dose. In any case, it seems to be working nicely.

A 0.1gram scale is a nice investment, one that should run you $20 at the most. Amazon and Ebay have plenty to choose from. absolutely invaluable when it comes to dosing consistently.

The VII is an awesome machine to work with, and a TON of fun. Once you get the shots running right, I think you are going to enjoy your setup very much. The temperature adjustment is addicting, and the steam is abundant. Youll be pulling great shots in no time.

You might start here, which is pretty in depth. Do you have a bottomless portafilter? I've found that to be the 2nd most useful tool for dialing in a new machine/blend (#1 tool: palate.)

Jman: any tips on improving the side-seal?

scott

Thanks for the feedback everybody. Dave was actually right - I was thinking about the VBM Domobar Super bench review.

I originally started pulling shots using the dimple from the grouphead bolt as a proxy for how much coffee I could dose and a) felt that I could only use very little coffee (13-14g) and b) felt that this approach allowed for too little headspace. Things improved a little bit after I installed the 11mm diffuser disk, which allowed me to go up to 15g with enough headspace to allow the puck to swell without being crushed by the shower screen. Nevertheless I still believe there is room to improve, so I will continue to play around with dosing to find the perfect dose for the different coffees I am using.

One thing that has definitely helped my shots is a tamper custom fit to the VII at 53.4mm. I am using a naked pf to control my shots and using that tamper has improved consistent distribution very much. What still bothers me a bit is the fact that similar to Jeff I have wet pucks all the time. The shots usually taste good, so I know I shouldn't care - I just dislike the mess this creates...

I agree with everybody mentioning the importance of using a scale. Since I am using the Versalab, I have been using one to get a feeling for the amount of coffee beans that go in the grinder and how much of it comes out. As things have been fairly consistent here, I have been relying on the weight of unground beans to judge the amount of coffee going into the pf.

I have the next couple of days off and a friend is going to come by to play with the machine. Most likely we will be running a couple of pounds of our favorite coffees through it. I will take pictures along the way and try to put together a write up to share my early experience with the VII.

Phillip

There is a dedicated forum for Vivaldi that contains a lot of useful info and knowledgeable posters @
http://www.s1cafe.com/

I dose right at 16 grams on my Mini II but I also modified my bottomless L/S p/f to accept a Dalla Corte and/or a La San Marco triple basket; while still accepting any of the stock L/S baskets. When I'm using one of the triple baskets I can go up to 22 grams, without any problems, but it turns out that most of the time I actually prefer a 16 gram dose. However, imho there are several blends that really shine when overdosed, mainly from Klatch.

If you're interested in seeing how to mod your P/F http://www.s1cafe.com/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=1059

However, it's next to impossible to find a triple Dalla Corte basket, which is the easiest one to mod.

HB wrote:For the La Spaziale, I dosed around 15 grams with good results:

It has been my experience also, that 15 grams is a sweet spot for the Vivaldi S1VII.

More often than not I am using Counter Culture toscano.

Also, you may or may not have seen the thread on Nutating tamp. Several owners, myself included think that the machine benefits from using a nutating tamp.

FWIW, Mary at Chris Coffee recommended a convex tamper - convex tamper+nutating tamp have made it much easier for me - being quite new to this.

related thread

Nutation: how to do it right

+1 on most of the above. One observation: the Spaz 53mm double is already triple height. IMHO it's a mistake to go for anything taller.

I typically dose 15-16g doubles on my S1V1, but have gone as high as 18g. Dosing is more critical than on my E61 Vetrano; even 1g changes the pour noticeably. As Jeff notes, pucks do not come out cleanly (perhaps due to basket height), but spent pucks are not soggy. I'm using a plain vanilla 53mm Bumper tamp with convex piston, no issues with side seal, no need for nutation (although it doesn't hurt). It's worth noting that my machine does not have preinfusion. (I tried the p/i retrofit cylinder, but removed it after a few weeks.)