malachi wrote:Single baskets are very challenging. The shape is non-optimal for great extraction as a general rule.
It's not impossible - it's just hard.

Sorry, Chris, but that statement is a load of bollox
It only has merit if qualified "when trying to make the same cup"

One does not cook a Kansas City Strip like a New York.

If one adjusts the blend, roast, dose and brew parameters to accommodate the little basket, an arguably better beverage can me obtained.

After many years of doubles, the single is now again preferred here

cafeIKE,

No need to adjust blend or roast for singles, just possibly the grind and dosing. I either grind slightly coarser or tamp a little bit lighter on the singles... in the end, it's machine/ginder/coffee specific, so what works, works.
The Law of Singles will be determined by the results in the cup.

I find that I have enough on my plate trying to get really good at doubles, and since I'm wanting at least that much in my cup anyways, I've relegated the single basket to the back of the toy drawer. I did get a great set of singles out of Silvia before I relegated, though, and I discovered that I'm not going to get the same cup from a single as from half a double. I briefly toyed with the idea of pulling two singles back to back, and then decided that that' a bit too inconvenient for me on a regular basis. The singles are preferred, but not enough to get my lazy a** to buck up and make 'em.
Oh, and John, I sent a coupla skiers to your shop today. They'll prolly stop by in the next couple of days and want some kind of chocolatey milky thing. Other than that, they're nice folk. Sell 'em a fresh pound of Screen Door for me, too, wouldja!?! ; > Shorter fella, bald, with a long bi-coloured goatee. Loud, smiley and friendly, you can't miss him.

An Italian bar will make singles when it's slow, doubles if there's a line and the available groups are running out. The shots flow, look and taste pretty much identical, and are done with one and two thwacks of the doser, respectively. So it is possible to select baskets, coffee blends, and doses and shot times that makes the choice of single and double completely transparent.

I have no idea what is sacrificed, in terms of extraction and blend possibilities, to ensure singles and doubles stay coordinated in this Italian bar way. However, to say that one is in general more difficult than the other is refuted by this basic Italian drill.

The dosing drill taught by Schomer, which has became the de facto standard in anglophone countries, has people filling and finger swiping deep, nearly cylindrical double baskets like the LM, Synesso, Faema or Cimbali doubles. This is not a style that will work unchanged with a single basket. Dosing and grind need to be changed, and the taste of the shots will probably also be different. This makes single shots impossible for anglophone bars. However, given the rarity of straight shot orders of any sort, or of single shot orders in milk, using only the double basket in this setting makes perfect sense.

I think these discussions would be a lot easier to follow if people distinguish sharply between commercially feasible practices, and what becomes possible when there's no customer line or bottom line. We please only ourselves and like minded friends when making espresso at home, and can try out things that will never scale up to bar use.

When working on the bar with LM double and single baskets, I used to set the grind so that the double was dosed by rapping twice to settle and striking off with a flat edge. The corresponding dose for the single was to dose as normal and scoop out with the number 18 Scottie tool. My very vague and quite possibly wrong recollection is that Scott's tools are 10cm along the straight edge and the number corresponds to the peak of the curve in mm, so if you have LM baskets and an expendable piece of plastic or card, you can have a go for yourself and report back. The mazzer doser lid also makes a handy scoop tool, so try it out if you have it - you never know; you might strike it lucky.

If you want to dose less, I would probably try not settling and striking off with a straight edge. If you want to dose even less than that, you might want a smaller double basket. With the LM baskets, I would guess that if you don't rap to settle, you will need a lower numbered (ie. less curved) scoop tool for the single basket.

You can also use the number of settling raps to control your dose quite effectively. It may be that dosing the single basket without collapsing corresponds to a dose of a certain number of raps for the double basket.

Cheers,

Luca

Scott Rao discusses basket shape in Ch.3 of The Professional Barista's Handbook. He argues persuasively that the truncated conical shape of a single basket is actually more optimal than the cylindrical shape of a double basket.

cafeIKE wrote:If one adjusts the blend, roast, dose and brew parameters to accommodate the little basket, an arguably better beverage can me obtained.

After many years of doubles, the single is now again preferred here

I didn't say that coffee from a single basket was INFERIOR - rather that it is more challenging to execute.

another_jim wrote:I think these discussions would be a lot easier to follow if people distinguish sharply between commercially feasible practices, and what becomes possible when there's no customer line or bottom line. We please only ourselves and like minded friends when making espresso at home, and can try out things that will never scale up to bar use.

You mean that, just because it's what is done in Italian bars (or for that matter at Intelligensia), doesn't mean you should do it at home?!?!?!

grin

RapidCoffee wrote:Scott Rao discusses basket shape in Ch.3 of The Professional Barista's Handbook. He argues persuasively that the truncated conical shape of a single basket is actually more optimal than the cylindrical shape of a double basket.

One of the areas where Scott and I disagree...

another_jim wrote:An Italian bar will make singles when it's slow, doubles if there's a line and the available groups are running out. The shots flow, look and taste pretty much identical, and are done with one and two thwacks of the doser, respectively. So it is possible to select baskets, coffee blends, and doses and shot times that makes the choice of single and double completely transparent.

I have no idea what is sacrificed, in terms of extraction and blend possibilities, to ensure singles and doubles stay coordinated in this Italian bar way. However, to say that one is in general more difficult than the other is refuted by this basic Italian drill.

It's interesting that you say this.
I found that (in northern and central italy at least) the single shots tasted VERY different from the doubles (though they looked and flowed the same).

malachi wrote:It's interesting that you say this. I found that (in northern and central italy at least) the single shots tasted VERY different from the doubles (though they looked and flowed the same).

I have to admit I usually drank doppios the last time I went to Northern Italy. My observation about identical taste comes from my more recent trip to the south, Naples, the bay of Salerno, and the Campagnia. Coffees aren't necessarily roasted darker, as far as I can see, but the acidity is almost always lower, and ristretto shots were the norm.

malachi wrote:You mean that, just because it's what is done in Italian bars (or for that matter at Intelligensia), doesn't mean you should do it at home?!?!?! grin

Actually, I meant it more like "don't try this at your bar, barista-boy"