malachi wrote:One of the areas of training (taught to me originally by Aaron de Lazzer) was around consistent dosing. The test was to dose 10 times and have all 10 be no more than 0.3 gram difference. There were experienced baristas who were significantly below this variance.

I quoted this not for the content but for the mention of Aaron, who actually was one of the two people who convinced me to "experiment" with lower doses in the period just before I became a convert (the other person was Jim Schulman). I met up with Aaron in Vancouver where he was (and I suspect still is) the "Director of Coffee" for Ethical Bean, a major Canadian "feel good" (fair trade/organic/what-have-you) coffee roaster with sales across the country.

Aaron, whom I had met previously several times on yearly trips to Vancouver, was most generous with his time, and during the tour he gave me of the facility, he told me how he had stopped drinking espresso for TWO YEARS because it had become such an over the top in your face beverage that he could no longer tolerate it. Then, on his honeymoon in Italy, he rediscovered espressos that were subtle and drinkable and balanced. His reasoning was primarily that they were using a lower dose of coffee, and his own experimentation later led him to resume drinking espressos but ones that were dosed in more "Italianish" proportions.

This encounter with Aaron was in the early summer of 2007, about a year and a half ago. When I returned home to Idaho I began experimenting with the lower dosing and the rest (for me) is history.

I think Aaron is one of the most understated yet most knowledgeable and pleasant people in the entire coffee industry. If you stumble onto this post Aaron, you have my heartfelt thanks for making a real difference in my enjoyment of coffee and espresso.

ken

Ken I appreciate the post. I've always tried to pull the flavor and balance through the intensity of the espresso before down dosing, but now dosing lower I can focus on the flavors without being drown out by the intensity.

I don't work with too many blends but I've found better espresso with less coffee so far with the ones I have worked with. Its a good starting place anyways.

Ken Fox wrote:I think Aaron is one of the most understated yet most knowledgeable and pleasant people in the entire coffee industry.

Could not agree more.

malachi wrote:Are you whacking or tapping or shaking the portafilter (while dosing or before distributing)?
I can pretty easily dose and distribute 14 grams in a LM ridget double and I use the Stockfleth's style distribution.
The key is to not shake or "settle" the grounds while dosing or distributing.

I've seen top baristas on YouTube doing this, persistently, and I was almost sure that this wasn't correct practice. Is this as generally incorrect as I think it is?

orwa wrote:I've seen top baristas on YouTube doing this, persistently, and I was almost sure that this wasn't correct practice. Is this as generally incorrect as I think it is?

It isn't correct or incorrect but rather a method of updosing. If attempting a standard or down dose it would most likely not be a good practice. As mentioned the key is consistent dosing and distribution for desired build result.

My criticism of the practice is not due to the fact that it allows consistent updosing. Updosing is in itself incorrect on many machines, since the geometry of the group doesn't leave enough room for the updosed, expanding puck. Rather, my criticism is due to my belief that not all grind particles settle equally upon knocking the portafilter, rather, this mainly causes the fines (in my understanding) to settle, contributing to the bitterness (again, in my understanding).

Some people knock the portafilter only to overcome the non-uniformity (gaps) in the initial grounds distribution, not to updose. I believe there exist better methods.

orwa wrote:Updosing is in itself incorrect on many machines, since the geometry of the group doesn't leave enough room for the updosed, expanding puck.

Sigh...
1 - updosing is neither correct nor incorrect... on ANY machine. It's simply a change in a variable - a way to get a different profile from a specific coffee.
2 - the puck doesn't expand until after extraction is complete. Feel free to search the 'net for the infamous perspex portafilter video if you like - but the expansion occurs after the 3-way releases pressure.

orwa wrote:Rather, my criticism is due to my belief that not all grind particles settle equally upon knocking the portafilter, rather, this mainly causes the fines (in my understanding) to settle, contributing to the bitterness (again, in my understanding).

As noted above, updosing in this manner is a way to create a different flavour profile.
This profile results from a combination of manner factors - including restriction of flow, increased volume of coffees, a coarser grind... and fines migration.

orwa wrote:Some people knock the portafilter only to overcome the non-uniformity (gaps) in the initial grounds distribution, not to updose. I believe there exist better methods.

To be honest - I've never heard of anyone knocking the portafilter AFTER distribution.
Seems like a bad and counter-productive idea. But probably worth experimenting with to see what happens. You never know.

People are talking about it, but I couldn't find it.

The effect of updosing on my machine is clearer with coarser grinds. When I updose using such a coarse grind (relative to my machine's quite-fine preference), the flow starts fast as expected, but very soon the puck develops an unbelievable resistance to water flow, not allowing me to proceed with the pull any further after only a few seconds. The internal mechanical stress (due to the expanding puck) is then apparent upon unlocking the portafilter, even if I did it immediately while taking precautions. Hence, I thought it was reasonable to assume that updosing like this was incorrect on my machine, as it consistently doesn't allow me to obtain a good extraction due to this design restriction.

I am a post dose thumper, but I also do little distribution beyond that. I dose while grinding into a LM ridgeless basket while moving the portafilter around so the doses throw along the perimeter of the basket instead of one big cone in the middle of the basket. I dose 14 grams which is below the rim of the basket (on most coffees). If there is a large mound or obvious lopsided distribution I will fiddle with it to level it off. I give the portafilter three thumps, no more, no less, onto my tamp stand. You are not driving nails so just three light thumps and it levels out. A light tamp and to the group you go. My grinder does very well and does not produce many clumps so I have no need to do any other distribution provided I dosed it into my basket correctly.

I have an Elektra A3 which is updose intolerable; it simply does not work with an updosed basket due to the design of the group. If I want more than 14 grams I go to a triple basket but even then I usually run around 18 grams. I am still somewhat shocked when I see people jam 20 grams into a double basket. But, if that is what you like, then enjoy it. Personally I like to play with the extraction space varying the dose and temperature to see what I can get. If changing pressures was easy I would play with that as well but varying the pump pressure on my machine is too much work. Sometimes I come up with a winner of a combination, other times I grimace and down the sink it goes, but if you never try, you will never know.

malachi wrote:2 - the puck doesn't expand until after extraction is complete. Feel free to search the 'net for the infamous perspex portafilter video if you like - but the expansion occurs after the 3-way releases pressure.

Chris, I searched the net, and I only find a lot of people--you in particular--talking about it. Is there a place where one can read more about it, and see the video?