HB wrote:Pshaw! Some roasters have the skill to pull off a good dark roasted coffee and I believe they're worth trying.

I'm back from pulling a sink shot. Got behind in my grind adjustments. These brutal winter nights in the mid-40's dry the beans out faster.

I used to include a dark roast in my espresso rotation for variety, but finally stopped because of the "yuck" factor. The oil clinging to the hopper, the beans jamming up and the clumpy grounds made me feel like I was turning the innards of the grinder into a grease pit. Probably an over-reaction, but I have plenty of other blends to chose from.

This isn't to say I won't live dangerously. I drink those 25% robusta blends that Angelo Minicozzi's likes when he offers them to me!

HB wrote: I have a standing monthly order with Paradise Roasters for whatever Miguel decides.

There used to be a few places that I frequented where the cooks (or chef) were so talented that I would just sit and tell the waiter, "Tell Janos (or AJ, or whoever) that I'm hungry. That is all the input I think I should saddle him with!" I love to be able to trust someone with my tastes like that. Someday I'll find a roaster that I trust like that... I am so jealous!

I voted 'none', for I have less then 1 in 10.
Surprisingly some of my singles that did not look very well (mid-shot-time channeling, or side-channeling) tasted good - actually they were sweet.
I make around 5 to 7 shots a day since I have my Vivaldi (more then month)

My sink shots dropped off considerably after I started using WDT.

My definition of a "sink shot" may have changed since I got the Max grinder.

With my giotto, only rarely did I sink a shot, but really, many of them should have been down the sink, but I just stomached them because I didn't want to waste the coffee and figured it would all be over in a little while. Ocassionally I would still sink a shot. Now, with the GS3, they are consistently good and I haven't needed to sink anything unless I'm changing blends. But once I get familiar with a blend, it's just a matter of writing down the temperature to set the GS3 at and dialing it in again. I've started keeping track of temperatures and other parameters on my wiki web and I'll refer there in the future.

Im afraid I am currently in the "or more" probably pulled a 0 out of like 20 something tonight. But I did drink 4....just becauase I couldnt stand to not have something....lol, going to be a late night now, and I will probably go practice more in a little bit!

I drink almost all my shots, since they hardly ever go visually awry. But on about 1 to 2 in 10, I wish I had sunk them

If you include "seasoning" shots and shots from when I'm dialing in a new coffee or experimenting - then I probably average around 3 or 4 shots out of every 10 I either don't drink or reject after one sip. In general, I rarely get below 3 out of 10 that are not consumed - and there are some times where it's more like 5 or 6 out of every 10 on average.

Then again, I probably tweak the grind at least once per day and well more than half my espressos are consumed as part of continued experimentation and tasting. I only drink espresso at home, not milk drinks. I rarely drink the same coffee for more than a couple days at a time. And when it comes to coffee, a long time ago I decided that there was no such thing as "good enough." So... I might be an outlier.

With the "New" La Peppina, I'm getting more sink shots while trying to dial in dose, grind, tamp, technique.

This number went way up when I started trying to pull singles on the lever after a few days and went back down again when I switched back to doubles. No sink shots tonight, though, hopefully it's not just a fluke.

I tend to get good, decent or less-than-decent, but nothing that is undrinkable, unless something is really off, like one batch of beans that went completely stale in <1 week - I tried three shots before I realised what was going on. None of them were drinkable

My score would be less than 1 in 10, but more than None.

A question I find interesting to ask to respondents here would be how you decide you need to sink a shot?
When I decide a shot must be sunk, most times this is based on perceived speed (extraction time) and visual clues of the crema. I strive for "mouse tail" extraction and "tiger skin" (red dots or stripes) crema.
Or, I would not even try to taste deviant shots.

Regards
Peter

With my Anita.. 1-2 out of 10. Despite having a grouphead therm.. I still never got 100% comfortable with her. I thought I was, but I realize now, that wasn't true.

With the Vivaldi.. Aside from the dialing in shot(1, maybe 2), it's nothin but smooth sailing.. shot after shot, bean after bean, cup after cup. I totally am hooked on Dual Boilers.. For me.. they're the only way to go. It has removed the main reason of why I got sink shots more then I should have been. Now, the Dual boiler, a Major/Vario combo, the WDT, and coffee in it's prime*.. Its pretty hard to get anything but great shots.

Ive been freezing coffee, in 1/4-1/3lb bags, and removing them frequently.. maybe even two at a time.. This allows me to have only coffee which is in the prime window of flavor, out on the bench. I cant believe I never tried freezing before. . .It's totally worth it.

I am sorry, but I flush a couple. It is a group head thing, some of you need to cool them down, I need to warn it up. Beyond that I have several grind adjustments that get done. So if i dump a few am not sorry for them.

-C

I keep very good records on each coffee that I use and I seldom sink shots. If it occurs it is when I try new coffees. I recently tried a new grinder at home and there were about four sink shots in a row until I got it right. I despise to waste anything so if they are close I will drink it. I do know that my LM is a lot more forgiving than the Alex was. I will sink shots if preparing for guests. When all the preparation elements are right you are rewarded with an exceptional shot. Yesterday I had three in a row that were what I would consider "God" shots. All pulled exactly the same way and were extraordinary. Coffee was Vivace Dolce.

CafSuperCharged wrote:...I would not even try to taste deviant shots.

I tend to always taste a shot, even if I think it's going to be bad. At the least, I find it helps me understand what is happening in the cup, and occasionally I have been surprised by something that is really interesting.

Because of the tremendous options with espresso (drink it straight, or Americano, macchiato, cappuccino, or latte) it's rare that I toss any shots. I've learned to surf the head before pulling shots, and even the first ones are turning out pretty well.

I sample all the personal ones thus lending to the direction of what it will ''become...'' As beans age, and with some that were just a bit wonky I've let an occasional cup of Americano sit so I could sip later and see how it tastes after it has cooled...(my excuse anyway).

darrensandford wrote:I tend to always taste a shot, even if I think it's going to be bad.

As I implied there is some tolerance away from what I would visually perceive as the optimum (relative to the roast/machines and my "ideal").
Say you have a visible air bubble in the crema (I have seen barista in Italy, secretly, gently whirl the caffè in the cup or gently knock the cup on the counter top to get rid of that bubble in an otherwise perfect cup/crema), or crema with the right color but lacking "tiger skin". The first I would just drink. The second I would decide as sink shot, or not, after a small sip.
Very high speed (in case of maladjustment of the grinder or a different espresso blend), blonding, holes in the crema, or too slow extractions (based on visual clues), I would all just dump in the sink.

BTW, I do not mind dumping shots as part of a learning or fine tuning process. Along these lines, I have advised aspiring barista to maybe spend a few hundred of their total budget less on hardware and just buy beans for that money to get to grips with grinder adjustment, espresso machine parameters and develop a good sense of what an espresso blend or SO can do for you (or which parameter to adjust how when sub-optimal results present).

Regards
Peter

CafSuperCharged wrote:A question I find interesting to ask to respondents here would be how you decide you need to sink a shot?

Taste.

Most of the time, Yes. Taste.

But also, for those guaranteed sinkers.. Its based on the 20 second pull.. I dont even both to taste it. When I get 3oz of Rustico in 20 seconds.. I dont need to taste it.. I know its garbage.



I dont consider a bubble, or bubbles in the Crema, a bad thing. Especially when using the bottomless, sometime they just happen. Its never been something I judge a shot by. But, thats me.