Maybe there is an advantage to having a machine that isn't a powerful steamer.

At work we have a Coffee Gaggia & even though making a latte takes at least 5 minutes from start to finish, I get perfect silky micro foam with it.

Just took off the phony frothing enhancer tip & I only use the metal tip.

The process takes 3 separate steaming goes to get the milk up to 140-160f (steam/wait for light to come on/steam/wait for light/steam)

But the froth is perfect.

Now with my Vetrano, the steam is so powerful that it brings the milk up to 140f before it really has time to get any silky texture.

If I stretch the milk it gets too sudsy & if I submerge the wand to soon it's just boiled milk.

You usually know your results as soon as you pull the pitcher away from your wand when your steaming is over.

If the wand is covered with a thick layer of silk (which I always get on the Gaggia) you know you got it right.

But it's very rare I get that on my Vetrano.

I use about 10oz whole milk mixed with half & half or just whole milk.

scottyg514 wrote:Now with my Vetrano, the steam is so powerful that it brings the milk up to 140f before it really has time to get any silky texture.

What the boiler pressure on your Vetrano? I've got mine set to 1.2 bars, and find the steam pressure to be just about perfect. Using 4 oz milk in a 12 oz pitcher, I stretch (incorporate air) for about 7-8 seconds and texture for about another 7-8 seconds. Nice silky texture and sweetness.

Mine is set about 1.2 as well. But in most cases I either get too big of bubbles or no bubbles at all.

I'm having trouble getting that creamy layer of milk which comes out at the end of a pour that makes the rosetta in latte art

scottyg514 wrote:Mine is set about 1.2 as well. But in most cases I either get too big of bubbles or no bubbles at all.

I'm having trouble getting that creamy layer of milk which comes out at the end of a pour that makes the rosetta in latte art

You might benefit from a restricted volume 2 hole tip like the Gold Pro 2. Or just practice more, and then practice some more, and then even some more with the higher volume tip!

scottyg514 wrote:Now with my Vetrano, the steam is so powerful that it brings the milk up to 140f before it really has time to get any silky texture.
...
I use about 10oz whole milk mixed with half & half or just whole milk.

In the Buyer's Guide to the Quick Mill Vetrano, Dan reports that it takes 41 seconds to heat 10 oz of milk from 40F to 160F on a Vetrano with the boiler pressure set to 1.2 bars. I get very similar results on my Vetrano. 40 seconds is plenty of time to properly texture your milk. How long does it take on your machine?

The trick is learning to surf the tip just under the surface of the milk. start with the tip a half inch under the surface, open the valve and then gently lower the pitcher until you get the correct sound. Angle of the steam wand and pitcher can be critical as well, but that comes with practice.

[gvideo]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1609002093550348065[/gvideo]

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[gvideo]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-989871230299249608[/gvideo]

[gvideo]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2509349450369592477[/gvideo]

[gvideo]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7012335494725332679[/gvideo]

I did not realize I have made so many steaming videos, some are better than others.

scottyg514 wrote:Maybe there is an advantage to having a machine that isn't a powerful steamer..

I am in the same boat. We do soymilk exclusively, and although I was never able to get anything resembling latte art, I could get some nice stretching done. That was with Silvia. The texture never lasted long in the cup, but you could feel it in the pitcher when swirling or knocking it on the counter.. been using that for 6.5 years.

Now with the Domobar I am having a heck of a time. It has only been a few days so I am not panicking over it yet (I have plenty of other thing to panic over) but this thing is so powerful it hits 140 before I can blink. My current thoughts are to either find a one hole tip, or get a spare original and block one hole. if that doesn't work I'll block both and drill anew one. Or something else. I even got a case of Pacific Foods Soy Blenders which are specially made for just this purpose but I am not up to the task at this point.

I am going to concentrate on GENTLY opening the steam valve to try to "regulate" the force down a bit. This thing has enough power to steam milk while it's still in the cow!

Anyone have a video of an Olympia Cremina steaming demo with the standard 4 hole tip? I'm still feeling challenged. Michael

To the OP and RandyG-

Most likely you are having issues because your are used to "working it" a bit and the one-hole tip on the Gaggia or Silvia. I takes some time and practice (sorry, no experience with soy products), but with a bigger boiler and a multi-holed tip, you can generally just put the the tip in the center of the milk's surface, hold the pitcher level or nearly so, find that point where the sound is intermittently "tearing" and silent, and then lower the tip a bit when you've hit somewhere between 80F and 100F. Try to let the tip do all the work of rolling the milk. It helps to start with a cold pitcher and milk... if you need some extra time, store your pitcher in the freezer and then add the milk and keep it in the freezer for a few minutes before you start.

Read this post from Jim Schulman a few times for some help, Properly Frothing and Pouring Milk.

Randy G. wrote:I am in the same boat. We do soymilk exclusively, and although I was never able to get anything resembling latte art, I could get some nice stretching done. That was with Silvia. The texture never lasted long in the cup, but you could feel it in the pitcher when swirling or knocking it on the counter.. been using that for 6.5 years.

Now with the Domobar I am having a heck of a time. It has only been a few days so I am not panicking over it yet (I have plenty of other thing to panic over) but this thing is so powerful it hits 140 before I can blink. My current thoughts are to either find a one hole tip, or get a spare original and block one hole. if that doesn't work I'll block both and drill anew one. Or something else. I even got a case of Pacific Foods Soy Blenders which are specially made for just this purpose but I am not up to the task at this point.

I am going to concentrate on GENTLY opening the steam valve to try to "regulate" the force down a bit. This thing has enough power to steam milk while it's still in the cow!

With more steam velocity, you need to be more "subtle" in your addition of air to the mix.

What for smaller boiler machines is "just right" is actually too aggressive in situations like these.

On my Gaggia, I was able to actually see the injection of air and still get great silky microfoam effortlessly.

With my Expobar (and commercial machines), you can't see the air injection. It's sound only, and nothing else. If the steam jet is powerful enough, you can watch the volume level slowly rise, but you don't want to actually SEE any of the microfoam like you could before. If you can see it, it's too big. Simple.

It took me awhile to get the hang of frothing on my Expobar. I eventually had to switch out to a 2-hole tip from EPNW to be able to get "enough" of the right kind of foam for art if I wanted to get it done in a timely manner. It took me a long time to realize that it just takes a lighter touch. It's somewhere between commercial machines and single boilers. Sort of a gray area.