Morning All,

Over the past couple of weeks, I've been seeing a steady incline in not only the quality of my shots, but also the consistency. I'm sure I'm far from being great, but again, progress is what I'm aiming for.

This morning, my first shot was one of my better one's, with a really nice taste and some nice rich crema, but it fell short on volume, as I stopped the machine when I saw it begin to blonde. This seems to be a pattern whereas I trade volume for quality or quality for volume. I currently am using 17-18 grams of coffee, Alterra Espresso Blend.

Any troubleshooting ideas? Need I updose, coarser grind, deeper tamp? Or...

Frankly, I'm not quite sure what else to try...

Cheers and happy drinking...coffee that is.

Mark

Morning Dan,

Standby, I'm going to have to give your 'brewing ratio' some thought and attention to adequately answer your question. Those are a lot of new ways to look at espresso that I'm not quite used to yet.

To answer your second 'statement' as to why not accept that I like shorter pulls, well, maybe you're right, but I guess I always thought that if I used 17-18 grams of coffee, I ought be able to get close to 2 oz. out of it and have it be good? I just figured that I was doing something wrong...

I'll try to figure out where my 'good' shots lie in table and get back to you...

Thanks!

Mark

It it tastes good to you - it is good.

Mark!
I know what you are going through! When I first really got serious about home made espresso, I too was quite troubled with my lack of getting a real 2 oz when I made a double. I tried everything, changing beans, grind settings, tamp pressures, etc...and learned from experience and from very experienced members here on HB, that it's better to have one ounce of great tasting espresso than two ounces of dreck...and I realized the obvious...I make and drink homemade espresso for the amazing flavor and texture, not for the belly filling factor!

So relax a little, 2oz is only a guide, and it's really for commercial establishments to charge more for worse tasting espresso! (Not all of them, but most of them!) I really think that's why its so hard to find a great tasting double out in the real world...It's not always the optimum pull.

FWIW...most of my "doubles" I usually stop at 1 to 1.75 oz , at the first signs of blonding...about 85% of the time, the other 15% are either shorter or longer, mostly rejects...

So don't beat yourself up....it's about quality, not quantity, right!

Just my .002 cents!

Kirk

Kirk/Chris,

You know something you're very right, the both of you...

I liken it to wine or cigars (the other two of my ocd addictions)...People ask me all the time what the best wine/cigar is...an absolute impossible question for me to answer. To me, if you hand me a bottle of Penfold's Grange and/or a Punch Gran Cru #2 Maduro...I could die thereafter a very happy man. However, some extremely well versed folks in the same subject think I'm out of my mind. To each their own, and this is no different I'm learning.

The crux of my questioning was that I thought I was doing something terribly wrong, I guess I'm not, and that is good to know...really good!

I still want to spend some time with Dan's question though, if for nothing else to learn something new about this little 'hobby' of mine...

By the way, if any of you found a way to stay 'caffeine sober' after 6 or more shots a day, please let me know! The one draw back to experimenting and testing and further testing and tasting is now I can't sleep...

Thanks again to all,

Mark

espressonewb wrote:By the way, if any of you found a way to stay 'caffeine sober' after 6 or more shots a day, please let me know!

Drink lots of water.
Eat a banana or two.

Drink beer.

The machine, grinder, coffee, age of coffee, humidity, and a dozen other variables will play into how much volume you get. I rarely go over 1.75 ounces for a double but I am usually around 14-16 grams depending on the coffee. You could also be getting some channeling but that usually produces a bitter and harsh espresso. If you have a bottomless portafilter, try doing a video and post it. If there is something going on we may be able to pick it out.

But in the end, dont get to concerned about the shot volume.

I only get the caffeine jitters if I knock down 5 or 6 shots in an hour now a days. Haven't tried the banana, but water and beer (or other high proof spirit) works well to calm the nerves. You just have to balance the stimulants with depressants to keep equilibrium.

Hello Gentlemen,

Sweet, now I have an actual reason to have my evening cocktail/s...Not as if I ever really needed one, but at least now I have an additional excuse to tell the wife!

"Honey, all the guys on the barista site say I just need to drink a bit more...They are afterall the experts, right?" Her, "Uh-huh"...

Yeah, that won't pass muster, but I'll certainly give it a sound college try...

Cheers,

Mark

espressonewb wrote:To me, if you hand me... ...a Punch Gran Cru #2 Maduro...I could die thereafter a very happy man.
By the way, if any of you found a way to stay 'caffeine sober' after 6 or more shots a day, please let me know!

First, the best cigar is the one to hand. Never look down your nose at a two dollar (in the pricier places) at Art Fuente's curly-heads. Yah, they're rolled by novitiates, and occasionally one comes up plugged, but out on the golf course they almost make up for the fact that there's no coffee out there!
As for the caffeine problem, find a roaster with an exceptional decaf. They tend to be a somewhat lesser quality cup than their caffeinated cousins, but (almost) all of the experimentation that you do with a decaf blend will translate to successes with your caffeinated blends of similar heritage. That, and those late-night urges get satisfied as well.
If you're just in it for the caffeine, the pills are much easier and cheaper. If you're in it for the taste, find a favorite decaf.

Psyd wrote:If you're just in it for the caffeine, the pills are much easier and cheaper.

Man, that made me laugh, I suppose because it's so true!!! Once you get into this "hobby", "distraction", "obsession", "addiction"...just like the other two you mentioned, wine and cigars; you are trapped! You can't go back to being happy with the cheap or easy stuff, but you are always chasing the ephemerally "better", shot, smoke or bottle...You have to love the process, or at least tolerate it enough to keep trying...particularly with Home Barista-ing...where you and your skill set are a major part of the problem/solution!

Now off for bananas and beer!!

Kirk

Tell me about it. I started with a 150 stick humi, that will do me forever. Then I had two of them, now I have a 400 count chest and a cooler full of overflow. I have had some bad expensive cigars and some exceptional cheap sticks. Just like coffee, you have to go through a lot of garbage to find the handful of gems.

I don't use tobacco, but I did come into possession of an exceptional cigar back in college. In an upstairs apartment lived a couple from the Netherlands- Gerard and Claurie (lovely folks, BTW). He said he was having a problem getting his 50 cycle record player working. He had broken the setscrew off on the motor pulley when trying to change it for the 60 cycle replacement. I went up there with the Dremel, cut a new slot in the screw, and changed it out for him. He offered me a cigar as a thank you, and at first I graciously refused it, but he insisted that I would like it, so I took it.

Later in the day, on the way to pick the wife up at work I fired it up. It was like candy- sweet, smooth and delicious. Mind you, these comments from a guy who had never smoked a tobacco product in his life!

Yes, I remember what it was- it was a Tueros Gold, in a glass tube. All the way from Cuba! He dad was a Dutch businessman, and he smuggled in a full box of these when he came to visit his son.

Ever since that day back in the early 70's I have been hoping that we would normalize our relationship with Cuba so I could enjoy another one of those. I did get a Tueros Silver in Canada in the 80's but it wasn't the same.

Now, if I only could find a sweet, smooth, affordable, single malt....

Easy, just get yourself... oh, you did include 'affordable'...
<Emily Litella>
Nevermind...
</Emily Litella>

Hey Psyd,

I never, and I mean never look my nose down upon anything I like...period. I've found joy in many a 'daily smokable' cigars over the years, and they are my go to, and those in which I hand to folks who won't appreciate my more sacred sticks. Same thing goes with my wine cellar too...

Never thought of the decaf route, have always likened decaf to a fat free cheesecake, why bother? However, it would help curb the shakes at 10 p.m.

Kirk,

I do like the process, and that's why I decided to get as hands on as I could with my first machine in the Silvia and Rocky. Plus, now that I've put some time in, i'm starting to reap some of the benefits. I made the single best double today, and the single best capp today, that I've ever made. I consider it hitting the barista lottery! Something bad is bound to happen to me now...

In any event, I think I like the coffee game better than Wine and Cigars, or for the time being anyway. With the home barista-ing, it's far more hands on, and I have a say in the outcome, and that's just plain fun!

Happy drinking...coffee or otherwise...

Mark

espressonewb wrote:Never thought of the decaf route, have always likened decaf to a fat free cheesecake, why bother?

Same reason. My doc has suggested that I cut down on a lot of things, keeping an eye on my cholesterol. That does NOT mean that I've given up a good cheesy spinach quiche. The GF put together a fat free, egg product, fat-free cream (?!?) pie that knocked me out, and kept my doc happy.
Giving up the by-products doesn't necessarily mean that you'd have to give up the product.
Are any of the substitutes as good as the originals? Probably not, but the tend to beat the pants off of doing without!

Remember that flavour. You wont find another like it for a long time. After Castro, all the good blenders left the country. The current farmers have run the soil into the ground (no pun intended). I was talking to Carlos Torano (cigar manufacturer for those that don't know) and he told me that if they went back to Cuba today, it would be 10 years before the soil was ready to produce one of those vintage Cuban puro's. I am actually at the cigar bar having a Kristoff Criollo right now. Darn nice smoke, creamy, a little nutty, a little leathery. Reminds me of a Brazil, Yemen coffee.

But we are getting way off topic.

If I am allowed to walk a little side way here? This is what one bumps into now and again, the perception of blonding! I strongly get the impression that the perception of blonding varies from person to person. Which can work out very confusing because where one person calls its pour blond the other calls it lighter.

So where am i going to here? Is there a rule of thumb one can use in judging shades (from a lighter becoming pour to the mentioned platinum blond) of blonding ? Or should everyone make up there own judgment according to taste and coffee type?

C-Spot..

Both.

There is a general color where the shot is considered Blonde. But personal taste will ultimately tell you when to stop the shot. You will just have to experiment every time you get a new bag. I usually pull a ristretto then a normale, and stop them both just as they blond. Then I pull two more, the same way, and let it blond for a second, then stop it. Then I find the right temp. Then the dose.

This is why 12oz bags are not conducive to my sanity.. If I dont pay attention, I can go through a whole bag trying to find the best spot, and then Im out.. This is why I dont switch coffees as often anymore.

As I said.. There is always going to be guidelines, parameters, opinions. But its your tastebuds for which you are making the espresso. Make it so it tastes the best to you.

FWIW, I dont think I have EVER pulled a full 2oz, even with the double basket packed to the limit.