OK, I get around 2 1/4 to 2 1/2 oz in 25 sec or so, but my streams are a little thin and the espresso is very dark, not a light chocolate brown. Almost no crema a well. The taste is a little bitter.
The roast is fresh(3 days old), the roasting is a medium. The coffee is a blend from Wholefoods and is a little lighter than what they use for their espresso.
I have a scale that is accurate to .1 of a gram and I put in 14 grams.
I have a bathroom scale that I use to tamp to 30lbs.
I use WDT.
I am trying to be a good boy
I use a Lelit PL53 and a Gaggia Coffe Deluxe.
Any ideas on what could be wrong?

Thanks.....

The local Whole Foods leaves the coffee in open dishes, staling all the while.

Some coffees are wholly unsuited for espresso.

Dark = Hot.

Well, I was hoping it wasn't the coffee. Everything I read says it usually is pilot error. This particular Wholefoods roasts on site and the beans were dated one day old when I purchased them. But, I really think that the beans are just too roasted. And these were the less roasted of the two recommended picks! Now, I have to get new beans from somewhere and try dialing them in. At least I will find out if it is me or not!
Thanks for the help.

Out of interest...

Have you got decent shots before now? Or is this an I've-just-started-these-are-my-first-beans-it-isn't-working post?

Looking at your equipment, a part of me's thinking that you might benefit from experimenting a little with the Gaggia's set up. I don't know about the Le'Lit, but a few folks seem to've given it decent enough reviews

So. If this is new equipment.

Might be a very good idea to adjust the Gaggia's OPV downwards. I'm guessing the innards of the Gaggia De Lux are pretty similar to those of a Classic; I've adjusted the OPVs on three Classics in the last fortnight, with fairly stonking results on each. The problem being that most Gaggias are - apparently - set to produce coffee at about 10-12 bar. IME, that produces thin, bitter coffee with very little crema.

This thread links to the two sources I used for modding the Classics. Again, I'd imagine they'd be pretty good guides for a De Luxe. If not, just taking the top off of the De Luxe should give you an idea of whether or not those guides hold.

Apart from that... well... Two of the Gaggias I've seen start out flash-boiling when they're at the top of their boiler cycles (i.e. when the 'ready' light goes off, the machine's at the bottom of its cycle; when the light comes back on, it's at the top of its cycle - and the machine's at pretty much its hottest point).

If you turn on the pump, the water may hiss, spurt and gush steam out. If it's doing that, then it's too darned hot. So sort out your portafilter (i.e. fill with tamped grounds), wait til the machine's at the top of its cycle, start up the pump, run it until the hissing and gushing stops, then for a second or two more. THEN stop the pump, lock in the loaded portafilter and start the pump again. This should - hopefully - produce a cooler shot. Or - at least - a shot which hasn't been battered with a hefty steaming for the first four seconds.

Finally, this makes DIY pre-infusion a nightmare IME of Gaggias

Starting up the pump for just a few seconds with the locked pf in place takes the temperature down even more. So trying to get anything close to pre-infusion means - IME - that the Gaggia often hits the bottom of their boiler cycle during the shot, and ramp up to full temperature during the shot. Consequently, they end up pouring the start of the shot cold whilst finishing up far too hot.

I'm sure there's a way around that *sigh* but having got a Zaffiro and Elektra MCAL in the last month, I've struggled to find the time to work it out

scottfa wrote:Well, I was hoping it wasn't the coffee. Everything I read says it usually is pilot error.

Yes, pilot error in choosing the wrong beans.

Regards
T

Though even if it's terrible beans (never come across Whole Foods as a brand in the UK... Just as a concept with organic / health food overtones) I'd strongly, strongly recommend adjusting the OPV and getting used to the boiler cycle so's you're not brewing wi flash-boiling steam

Not sure if roasteries vary between WF locations but Allegro roasts beans in my local store and the roasts are pretty good. I typically buy the Espresso bel Canto and occasionally the darker Italian roast. The roasts are fresh, dated, sold in bulk, and produce excellent espresso. If you're buying Allegro beans suitable for espresso and getting terrible results something is probably wrong.

Also, Zingerman's in Ann Arbor is *supposed* to have some folks who know their coffee too. Someone sent me a pound of espresso once but it was pretty old by the time I got it and roasted rather dark...

Wow! Quite a collection of responses.
I think that the beans are fresh, but that the roast is too dark. I will try the Espresso bel Canto next time around.
Yes, this is my first ever espresso machine and the first bag of beans through it. I guess I almost sound like I know what I am doing
I'll research the thread about changing the OPV.
I just purchased a lb of beans from the Ugly Mug in Ypsi. They have a great reputation and the capp I bought is certainly not bitter. Maybe a little too mild. So it will be a good test to see if it is me or the machine.
Thanks for all the suggestions, I have a naked portafilter on order to watch the purty flow of espresso. I cringe to think of what it will show of my technique!

OK, first capp with new beans. It is a blend of Colombian and Brazilian. The capp I had earlier today at the Ugly Mug was straight Brazilian and had no bitterness(acidity?) at all. The new blend at the same grind etc. produced 2 1/2 oz in 26 seconds and had at twice the crema, which was not hard to accomplish. Taste quite nice, so the beans do have something to do with it. I am still looking into the OPV but want some info that my Gaggia Coffee Delux has to be adjusted.
Thanks for the tip on letting the pump run for a few seconds before putting in the portafilter. I do this to purge any stuff fronm the last shot and it certainly sputters and steams.
So, things are looking up!
Again, thanks to all.

2.5 ounces is a little on the fast side. Before you turn down your opv try grinding a touch finer. If the puck does not create sufficient pressure then crema will be lost.

Aha! I am ahead of the game for once. I just set the grinder to grind slightly finer. Still, the improvement is noticeable with NO adjustments anywhere. I am also thinking about upping the dose from 14g to 15g and see what happens.
Thanks.

scottfa wrote: I am still looking into the OPV but want some info that my Gaggia Coffee Delux has to be adjusted.
Thanks for the tip on letting the pump run for a few seconds before putting in the portafilter. I do this to purge any stuff fronm the last shot and it certainly sputters and steams. .

Hello fellow Gaggia owner, did you end up adjusting the OPV? I was considering it on my G-espresso. I think that link listed above described how to adjust OPV with non manometer measurement of the bar pressure, which should be around 9 bar for espresso pulls.

let us know an update, thanks.

scottfa wrote:Wow! Quite a collection of responses.
I think that the beans are fresh, but that the roast is too dark. I will try the Espresso bel Canto next time around.
Yes, this is my first ever espresso machine and the first bag of beans through it. I guess I almost sound like I know what I am doing

Fresh roasted beans does not automatically confer quality. So many variables exist, including the choice of beans, roast profile, and expertise of roaster, all of which can impact the resulting quality. Although their intentions may be good, it is hard to know what is going into the beans that you are buying from Whole Foods.

When I moved two years ago, I was initially thrilled to find a micro-roaster within a stone's throw of my home. I was certain that this meant good coffee in those periods when I was unable to roast myself. How wrong I was: the apparent lack of skill and/or interest of the shop's owner resulted in some of the worst coffee I've ever seen or tasted. After throwing out one batch, I tried on a few more occasions as it made no sense to me (who opens a roastery when they don't know how to roast?). All failures.

For the sake of experimentation, I would invest in a pound of freshly roasted beans from a local roaster with a good reputation or from one of the online suppliers of high quality beans. If you cannot get quality coffee from such a bean, then the machine and pilot surely need to be examined more closely.