so before i say anything else, I must admit to using preground for the moment, which i get from starbucks or various little coffee shops (im shopping around), and as such i cannot adjust the grind, nor do i have a clue as to how fine or coarse it even is at the moment ...

and before you start to type away, please bear in mind that A GAGGIA MDF IS IN THE MAIL, or very close to being anyway ... and well in the mean time i still want to drink coffee you know ?



so anyway, i am just having the hardest time dosing and tamping my coffee right now. if i fill it up to brim (or slightly overfill it and scoop it even), i can't seem to get a tight enough tamp with the gaggia 'stock' tamper that's not even large enough to cover the portafilter... (why theyd do that is beyond me) ... im trying the nsew method and trying to get the sides a little deeper to no avail ... often this will leave me with too little headway, and trying to get the pf into the group is horribly difficult if not entirely impossible. this, in turns, messes up the puck and gets grinds up the shower head which ill eventually have to clean up of course ..

as for the tamping, i dunno ... i seem to be putting all my weight on it (i dont weigh 30lbs fyi), and it still seems not packed enough ... i think im getting channeling near the edges, from the looks of the puck post extraction .. should it really be completely even or are a few bumps and cracks to be expected ?..

my shots are still too fast .... averaging 15 seconds with the odd 'correct' shot ... one of which im drinking right as we speak .. stopped it after 26 seconds .. i even think it mightve been a tad slow but i thought i would just stop it anyway and the results are better than most of the 15 second shots ive had so far.

..

so yea ... opinions and comments and such would be appreciated.. thx

pedepy wrote:so before i say anything else, I must admit to using preground for the moment...
my shots are still too fast .... averaging 15 seconds with the odd 'correct' shot.

Preground coffee = stale coffee = extractions run fast. For the longer version, see Use preground coffee while saving for an espresso grinder?

+1

Do Not OBSESS over this $#!+ . . . wait until your setup is complete before trying to dial everything in. Right now, you ARE obsessing and you WILL go nuts trying to do anything with pre-ground coffee.

Patience . . . patience . . . and if that doesn't work, switch to decaf!

pedepy wrote:and before you start to type away, please bear in mind that A GAGGIA MDF IS IN THE MAIL, or very close to being anyway ... and well in the mean time i still want to drink coffee you know ?

I agree with Dan. It seems as if you know that pre-ground is a Sisyphean task, yet you want us to tell you that we're really kidding, fresh roasted and fresh ground isn't really that important, and that there is an easy way around it? Ain't gonna happen my friend. The reason that everyone harps on the Rule of Fifteens is that it's a rule. Break it at your own peril.
I'd suggest Mokapot, or press, or some other method of adequately extracting the pre-ground until the MDF arrives. If you have nothing else, fill the PF til you can get adequate headroom, and locking in isn't a complete exercise. Don't dose any deeper than you can lock in with a reasonable tamp (after fifteen or twenty pounds, you're not gonna change the pull time too much anyway. Go ahead and pull the shot getting an extra-waugha-lungo, and dream about the fine espresso you'll have when you get your MDF.

When I first started trying to make real espresso, I too did not have a grinder, and had a Gaggia Carezza. The only thing that got me close was to go to a real local coffee shop that was using freshly roasted coffee and have them grind it for you in small amounts. This will not be as good as you soon will get, but will be better than what you are making now, at least for a brief time after you bring it home.

thanks ..

tbh i didnt think the *age* of the grind made any difference in the *speed* of the extraction.. i knew it would give progressively poorer quality coffee, but somehow i thought that at an equal grind size and dosage, with the same tamping, you'd get the same extraction speed from fresh ground or super stale coffee powder..

pedepy wrote:...somehow i thought that at an equal grind size and dosage, with the same tamping, you'd get the same extraction speed from fresh ground or super stale coffee powder..

Nope. As the coffee ages, its oils evaporate and the grind must be finer and finer to compensate. The bottom line is that you'll need a good grinder and fresh coffee. Anything else is a recipe for frustration and lousy espresso.

If this were posted anywhere else I would consider it a troll. Even here I have my doubts. Still.....
While some have reported that they have produced what they claim as espresso with preground, I suspect that they have set such low standards for themselves that they could not have possibly been disappointed. Possibly they had an enhanced (pressure regulated) portafilter that could have visually revealed a crema-like substance even using Folgers instant.

water + coffee = Espresso

preground coffee is fresh only if your home is less than fifteen minutes from the grinder. Time is counted from the moment the grinder is started until you put the coffee into the
portafilter... and in my home, fifteen minutes is giving you the benefit of the doubt.

So in your case:
water + stale coffee = poor espresso (if you're lucky).

This discounts the thin odds that the grind is a match to your espresso machine.

STARBUCKS!?

Tell your inlaws (or a date) that you are taking them out for a good steak and walk them into a MacDonalds and see how that works for you. That's how I rate Starbucks. Even some supermarket coffee in bins has the potential of being fresher than what *$$ often sells to its customers. Remember that popularity does not denote quality, and with food that is more a law than a rule, at least in the US.

Relax, wait until the grinder shows up, and get some fresh coffee! Until then about the only positive thing you will accomplish is to stain your teeth.

Randy G. wrote:This discounts the thin odds that the grind is a match to your espresso machine.

Now that I think about it, that's actually the bigger issue: Fresh coffee or not, if the grind isn't right, the espresso isn't right. Staleness will exacerbate an already challenging situation. I've read of attempts to tweak the pour by updosing or tamping harder; it may help produce an espresso that looks better, but it won't taste much better.

On a related note, Abe's Experiments with Preground Coffee for Espresso offers evidence that coffee ground in advance in the doser as is customary in Italy may have merits that freshness purists had not considered. However, that's not the same as "preground coffee" discussed here since the grinder is dialed in for that particular batch of coffee and dosed within 15-30 minutes.

I've gotten something that very closely resembles espresso form a steamtoy. Crema, thick and fruitful, chocolate and caramel. Better than almost all chain shops, and a lot of independent ones, too.
I had a burr grinder to grind those fresh roasted beans right before I locked in, though.
A grinder makes espresso, an espresso machine just makes water hot and pushes it through the puck.

pedepy wrote:tbh i didnt think the *age* of the grind made any difference in the *speed* of the extraction..

Well, if you've learned nothing else...