Going a bit crazy, 6 years after starting my espresso journey
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- Posts: 33
- Joined: 15 years ago
Hi All,
I've owned an E61 HX machine (the La Nuova Era Cuadra - original UK model) and a Compak K3 touch since 2008. After my purchases, I settled into a 'routine' where I would:
The time to try and refine my technique came with the new year where I decided to get back into trying to 'perfect' (if such a thing is possible), my espresso technique. I've purchased some scales accurate to 0.1g and also got a larger basket which enables me to increase the dose to 18/19g without hitting the screen. I've also managed to source a few yogurt pots to facilitate trying the WDT. I also have a naked PF.
So, out of curiosity I decided to do my usual thing and observe the results with a PF. Well... I won't show you the picture of the unfortunate cup victim which resembled the fallout of someone with a very upset stomach...
I think my biggest challenge is distribution and I feel as if I'm going a bit mad. Historically I feel (in hindsight) I've always put too much coffee in the basket I was using, as I'd try to get near to 18g and I'd always end up with the coffee hugging the shower screen in the group head when locking the group head in place. Thankfully the new basket is large enough where I can distribute, tamp, lock in the protafilter, take it out and all my work is still untouched.
So... one of my first challenges/questions in my new 'setup'. At the moment (in the distribution related department):
Does having a flat distribution level with the top of the basket even matter, if the distribution is fairly even? I find that watching some WBC 2013 videos a lot of Baristas simply tamp after distributing without bothering with different levelling moves.
The resultant puck from my new 'technique' involving WDT I find is often quite wet.
Many thanks for your critique in the hope it may help me regain my sanity somewhat! Feel free to be brutal and thanks for reading!
The coffee I'm using is a relatively dark roast, which should be a sweet, rich low in acidity espresso. It's a blend of beans from Brazil including naturals, pulped naturals and washed. They come from a variety of different estates. The varietal is Acaia, Red Catuai.
I've owned an E61 HX machine (the La Nuova Era Cuadra - original UK model) and a Compak K3 touch since 2008. After my purchases, I settled into a 'routine' where I would:
- * Weigh the coffee in a small glass bowl on some Salter (a brand in the UK - not sure if outside?) scales which unfortunately were only accurate to 1g (i.e. not 0.01g or 0.1g).
* Dump the weighed beans into an empty hopper on my Compak.
* Run the grinder, putting the output of the grinder back into the glass ramekin. This is definitely very clumpy without any corrective action. Having had a look for a yogurt pot for WDT and failing to find one that fit I then turned to...
* Put the resulting grinds into a long brown bag and shaking the grinds to try and break up the grinds, before eventually pouring the grinds into the portafilter and distributing with a flat object, applying no downward pressure.
* Flush the group head until the gurgling/hissing/boiling water sounds stopped, plus 8 seconds, then turn off the group head.
* Wait 30 seconds (beyond the 8, so 38 after gurgling has completed) and then pull the shot.
The time to try and refine my technique came with the new year where I decided to get back into trying to 'perfect' (if such a thing is possible), my espresso technique. I've purchased some scales accurate to 0.1g and also got a larger basket which enables me to increase the dose to 18/19g without hitting the screen. I've also managed to source a few yogurt pots to facilitate trying the WDT. I also have a naked PF.
So, out of curiosity I decided to do my usual thing and observe the results with a PF. Well... I won't show you the picture of the unfortunate cup victim which resembled the fallout of someone with a very upset stomach...
I think my biggest challenge is distribution and I feel as if I'm going a bit mad. Historically I feel (in hindsight) I've always put too much coffee in the basket I was using, as I'd try to get near to 18g and I'd always end up with the coffee hugging the shower screen in the group head when locking the group head in place. Thankfully the new basket is large enough where I can distribute, tamp, lock in the protafilter, take it out and all my work is still untouched.
So... one of my first challenges/questions in my new 'setup'. At the moment (in the distribution related department):
- * Weighing out 18g of coffee on the 0.1g accurate scales.
* Dumping them in the chute, and then grinding into a glass bowl.
* Checking the weight, often needing to grind a little bit extra to bring it back to 18g.
* Putting the contents of the glass bowl into my porta filter (which has been locked in the group head for 45 minutes, minimum) - complete with yogurt pot - and mixing/distributing out any lumps or pockets I can see using a bamboo skewer.
* Remove the yogurt funnel and attempt to create a level top. However...
Does having a flat distribution level with the top of the basket even matter, if the distribution is fairly even? I find that watching some WBC 2013 videos a lot of Baristas simply tamp after distributing without bothering with different levelling moves.
The resultant puck from my new 'technique' involving WDT I find is often quite wet.
Many thanks for your critique in the hope it may help me regain my sanity somewhat! Feel free to be brutal and thanks for reading!
The coffee I'm using is a relatively dark roast, which should be a sweet, rich low in acidity espresso. It's a blend of beans from Brazil including naturals, pulped naturals and washed. They come from a variety of different estates. The varietal is Acaia, Red Catuai.
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- Posts: 129
- Joined: 13 years ago
can you describe the problem with your espresso? is it too thin? too bitter? running too fast? is there crema? your description of the naked portafilter shot is evocative but not terribly informative about what problem you're trying to solve. also, can you say more about the beans: where procured, how fresh, how darkly roasted?
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- Posts: 33
- Joined: 15 years ago
Hi Dan,
I find often that it is somewhat bitter, but most in focus is that it is intensely fruity to the extent of possibly being unpleasant - I wonder if this is what people mean when they say 'sour'. Often it blonds very early in the shot and rarely would make it to 60ml without needing to be stopped.
In terms of the naked portafilter, I'm finding that sometimes it donuts, and often I get lots of squirting everywhere (hence the mess). I'll try to video and photograph a shot later tonight and let you guys know all the variables.
The beans were roasted 17th of Jan. Please find a pic of them here:
Many thanks!
I find often that it is somewhat bitter, but most in focus is that it is intensely fruity to the extent of possibly being unpleasant - I wonder if this is what people mean when they say 'sour'. Often it blonds very early in the shot and rarely would make it to 60ml without needing to be stopped.
In terms of the naked portafilter, I'm finding that sometimes it donuts, and often I get lots of squirting everywhere (hence the mess). I'll try to video and photograph a shot later tonight and let you guys know all the variables.
The beans were roasted 17th of Jan. Please find a pic of them here:
Many thanks!
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- Posts: 210
- Joined: 13 years ago
If I may interject, 'sour' (or tart or acidic) in this context means literally that, one of the 4 primary flavors perceived on the tongue, independent of the nose and independent of any aromatics connoting fruit or anything else. To experience the pure "sour," try tasting some dilute (and odorless) citric acid solution, or taste some citrus juice with your nose pinched shut. Tartness may be a fault caused by under-roasted beans, by brew water that's too cool, or by gross under-extraction of a too-coarse grind. OTOH, it may be a desired trait (if an acquired taste) in a fruity, light-roasted so-called "third-wave" espresso. In my roasting/brewing, I try to strike a balance between "sour" and "cloying" in my espresso shots; in milk drinks, it's far less critical.shuurajou wrote:intensely fruity to the extent of possibly being unpleasant - I wonder if this is what people mean when they say 'sour'.
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- Posts: 33
- Joined: 15 years ago
I wouldn't rule out defining it as tart, but I'll certainly try some lemon juice or some such with my nose shut for comparison. I do think that it's possible the water is too cool and possibly under extracted. I've posted a video and some photos below. I would describe the resultant shot as acrid. Generally bitter and ashy and no other flavours came to my as I tasted it.
The distributed grinds (18g precisely):
Pulling the shot: The spent puck:
My observations about this extraction:
* Perhaps my execution of the WDT distribution didn't give the desired distribution
* Way too fast.
I've tightened up the grind and will see how that does tomorrow. Feedback and criticisms welcomed. Sorry the view of the portafilter is a bit dark.
The distributed grinds (18g precisely):
Pulling the shot: The spent puck:
My observations about this extraction:
* Perhaps my execution of the WDT distribution didn't give the desired distribution
* Way too fast.
I've tightened up the grind and will see how that does tomorrow. Feedback and criticisms welcomed. Sorry the view of the portafilter is a bit dark.
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- Posts: 151
- Joined: 11 years ago
A few things to consider :
-Have you tasted the coffee, prepared in a café? Is it possible that that's just the way the coffee is supposed to taste? The description on the bag isn't always accurate.
-You mentionned you were using 18g of coffee, but I don't recall seeing the weight of the "finished product". From an 18g "dry" dose, most of my espressos weigh between 25g and 36g (depending on the coffee, of course).
-You didn't mention the water you're using. Is it filtered? Do you know the TDS?
-Have you tasted the coffee, prepared in a café? Is it possible that that's just the way the coffee is supposed to taste? The description on the bag isn't always accurate.
-You mentionned you were using 18g of coffee, but I don't recall seeing the weight of the "finished product". From an 18g "dry" dose, most of my espressos weigh between 25g and 36g (depending on the coffee, of course).
-You didn't mention the water you're using. Is it filtered? Do you know the TDS?
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- Posts: 31
- Joined: 11 years ago
From someone who has struggled a few times:
- Are the beans fairly fresh? (known roast date within the last month, preferably 7-14 days, and stored well)
- Try grinding finer - it sounds like your shot is running fast and most of my spurters have resolved with a finer grind
- IMO your distribution looks fine and you should be able to tamp after WDT
I would expect a finer grind/slower pour to bring out the darker flavours from the beans but recomemnd the article on this site about fine tuning your shots by taste (and the rest of the articles!).
/espresso-g ... blems.html
Cheers Ben
- Are the beans fairly fresh? (known roast date within the last month, preferably 7-14 days, and stored well)
- Try grinding finer - it sounds like your shot is running fast and most of my spurters have resolved with a finer grind
- IMO your distribution looks fine and you should be able to tamp after WDT
I would expect a finer grind/slower pour to bring out the darker flavours from the beans but recomemnd the article on this site about fine tuning your shots by taste (and the rest of the articles!).
/espresso-g ... blems.html
Cheers Ben
- kowalej
- Posts: 97
- Joined: 12 years ago
It sounds like if you're having sprites and doughnut extractions there is still something wrong with your distribution, which can also lead to the sour shots. I've been making espresso for about a year now, and only in the last couple months have I finally attained consistently good extractions (as in 1 in maybe 10 shots has extraction problems). The key to this, I believe, was using a method similar to the OE "slapshot" technique where I give the basket with a funnel on top a couple little taps against a rubber mat, after which I do a fairly light tamp where I am very careful with how level the tamper is. I used to be less careful with tamping technique and would tamp much harder in the past, and have also played with the WDT method, but I've found the best consistency has come from my current technique.
So maybe you should try a light "leveling" tamp without the WDT and see how that works out for you. Also be aware that your grind should be slightly finer with this method.
So maybe you should try a light "leveling" tamp without the WDT and see how that works out for you. Also be aware that your grind should be slightly finer with this method.
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- Posts: 21
- Joined: 12 years ago
Personally, I love sweet tasting espresso, but there comes a point where what I brew becomes way too...almost sour for my tastes. I fixed that by tightening up the grind size and using *smaller* doses. Since you're doing an 18g dose, I might try starting with a 14-15g dose. First off, the puck will look terrible at the end, so you'll have to go off of the look of your shot instead of analyzing the puck. If you can get the extraction right, then you should have a shot that isn't quite so bright from there, you can try raising the dose till you get something you like.
What does everyone else think of down-dosing? I know some of it depends on your taste preference, but I think it's an option if you don't like really bright espresso.
What does everyone else think of down-dosing? I know some of it depends on your taste preference, but I think it's an option if you don't like really bright espresso.
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- Posts: 146
- Joined: 17 years ago
It seems like you can still see the screen impression on the puck. The E61's are supposedshuurajou wrote:I wouldn't rule out defining it as tart, but I'll certainly try some lemon juice or some such with my nose shut for comparison....
to be forgiving in this respect, but you may still want to allow for more head space.