I live on a small island on Hawaii and don't have access to a good espresso bar to experience what a correct espresso is supposed to taste like, so I've been trying to make one by reading online and trying to replicate what I see, but I'm having a little difficulty.

Here's my equipment: A Vario grinder, purchased new from ChrisCoffee, and an old Gaggia Espresso with a black plastic shell (http://partsguru.com/GaggiaEspresso.html) for $10 from a local thrift shop.

When I got the machine it was non-functional from having never been descaled. I disassembled and de-scaled the machine, plugged the "auto-prime" outlet, and have purchased but not yet installed a $40 eBay PID. (I'm still waiting for the SSR.) I sawed off the bottom half of the portafilter holder to make a naked portafilter.

Now everything is working, but the espresso I am getting doesn't match up with what I thought I should get.

Here's my procedure and results:

1) I weigh out 14g of bean (about 8 days post roast) on a .01g scale.
2) I grind the beans in the vario directly into my double shot portafilter
3) I distribute the grinds gently with my finger
4) I briefly tamp with a 58mm tamper with about 30 lb force
5) I insert the portafilter, position a cup, and turn on the machine
6) The moment espresso starts to appear, I start a timer
7) I let the espresso run until the cone collapses (I don't see any channeling), and then maybe 5 seconds more.


...and here are the results:

The espresso appears to be over extracted, but only produces a small 1 oz of product in a short 16 seconds before the cone collapses and blonding sets in.

Here's my thinking. Somewhere I must be doing something wrong, but I can't figure out what it is:

If I extract for a longer time to get more fluid, I go past the blonding point and it seems like I will just have even more over-extracted espresso.

If I grind more finely or tamp harder, it will take longer, but the espresso will be more overextracted and I will get less volume.

If I grind more coarsely or tamp not as hard, it will be less over-extracted and I will get more volume but it will take less time.


It seems like there is no combination of things I can do that will increase the extraction time, decrease the extraction level, and produce 2 oz of fluid. What can I do?

Thanks
-cwm9

-Start the timer when you turn on the pump, not at the first drops of espresso.
-Are you preheating the Gaggia? It should be left on for at least 20-30 min with the empty pf locked in before you pull the first shot. (flushing can reduce this time, but you do need to preheat)
-Are your beans freshly roasted within the last 2 weeks? (edit - I see they are, oops!)
-Try WDT to distribute the grounds (search in this forum for the method)
-Is it a metal tamper or the plastic one that came with it? The plastic ones don't really work.
-If none of the above has helped you should look up temperature surfing tricks for your machine to try to get closer to the optimal brew temp.
-practice, practice, practice

Good luck.

Hey cwm. It seems like you have a really good jump on this, and have done a lot of research yourself. You are on the right track! Way more advanced than many people that come and ask these sorts of questions usually, so kudos for doing your research.

First, part of the reason I am answering is that I had a very similar setup to yours for a while, and often use my gaggia on mornings when there isn't time for my huge machine to warm up. All that to say, you can get VERY good espresso from your setup if you are doing it right.

Second, from my reading of your description, you are doing everything correctly, as far as your mechanics go.

Third, and here is my question, how are you defining overextracted/underextracted? As Jim Hoffman says (he is the one who I first heard say it), some of the best "looking" shots on a naked portafilter are not necessairly the best extracted. So that gives a bit of contour to my question... are you judging extraction by looks? taste? a combination of both? temperature?

Keep this in mind... different beans will give you different tastes, different water temps will give you massively different tastes, different temps will cause your extraction to look different, etc. There are a lot of variables, and I am a big proponent of using your taste buds to determine appropraite extraction, and let rules of thumb be just that, rules of thumb. If you don't have a lot of experience tasting espresso, then just keep tasting, and brewing, and trying. Any chance you get, taste espresso from great shops pulling it (if you are back on the mainland, especially). This will help you start to really put your finger on what is "overextracted" or "underextracted".

So in summary, as the previous poster said, start your timer when you start the pump (that is when the extraction starts afterall), and stop using the word "appears" b/c that makes me think you are aiming to make your shot look pretty, and espresso is about SO much more than that.

I've been in a similar situation before with my Gaggia. What's going to "fix" it most likely has to do with what coffee you're using, unless there's something wrong with the machine. Here's what I would try

1. Measure the temp of the water coming out of the group head (look up how to do it with a styrofoam cup and cheap thermometer). It should be around 200f, but with a used machine it could be wayy off.

2. How does the espresso taste? The temperature during the pour can vary wildly with the little Gaggias, and there's not much in the way of pressure control. Which just means that you can't always get 25-30 seconds of good espresso from them, if you can get 1oz in 16 seconds and it tastes good, but the rest of the pour is terrible, just keep stopping it early and enjoying your 1oz.

3. Don't feel like you have to stick with 14g. A lot of coffees won't give 2oz of good espresso at that dose. Of course this all depends on what beans you're using, depending on the bean I've had my best results anywhere from 13-20 grams (although most often it's 16-18).

4. Try another coffee. When I was first starting out with my Gaggia there were blends that I couldn't get to work for the life of me, I'd go through entire bags that ended up as sink shots. Some blends are just tricky, and some are much more forgiving. I've had great luck with Ambrosia from Caffe Fresco, and Red Bird espresso is supposed to be very forgiving as well.

Good luck!

Hi there, the advice given to many beginners is to spend the majority of their budget on a grinder and the rest on an espresso machine. You spent 40x more on your grinder. That is awesome.

Anyhow, where are you getting your beans from? Same place as your local shop I presume? What do they recommend as a usage window for the beans? How is it actually tasting?

Couple things
I have a PID'ed classic
I pull most shots at around 18 grams, so I would try different amounts of updosing, and see what works.

You may need a adjustable OPV at some point, your machine may be running at more then 9 bar, and is not adjustable, AFAIK.

As others have said, consider trying other beans, beans that were roasted by someone who knows how to roast for espresso.

Randy

You're on the right track. I'll echo what the others have already said.

Temperature - measure your brewhead temperature as best you can and practice temp surfing. Gaggias typically run a little cool when the ready light turns off. On my machines (I have 3 Gaggias just like yours) I have to turn on the steam switch for 10-15 seconds after the lights goes off, do a quick purge, and then pull the shot. The steam switch helps bring the temperature up a bit.

Dosing - try a higher dose. I rarely use 14g. More like 16-18.

Volume and Time - I rarely get a full 2 ounces in 25 seconds. Try a few ristrettos. Most of my shots are about 1.25 ounces and they take around 30 seconds.

Well, if you are already using good beans I would suggest you to try higher doses, as other users said.

Another_jim has an excellent post about it that you can find here: Grind, not Dose

By your report it seems that you're getting blonding before the desired volume is reached and probably your effort to get it towards the correct volume is leading you to achieve overextracted shots.

I would suggest you to try bigger doses AND coarser grinds. Try it in the 16-18g range as Jeebs said, but grinding coarser to allow the extraction rate to match with the flow rate (the post above explains better).

I tried this approach on my Gaggia Twin with excellent results. It became easier to control the start of blonding so it occurs close to the end of extraction, when I'm close to my target volume.

Give it a try.

Leonardo

I echo the higher dose and about 25 seconds to blonding. Your PID will read substantially higher than your target temperature when you start - ours reads about 209 degrees but things cool down really quick. YRMV. I have also found the Yahoo Gaggia user group really helpful in dealing with the idiosyncracies of this machine - but then Gaggia is my favorite at this price point, particularly the Classic. If your unit does not have an adjustable OPV and will take it, that is another mod that is recommended to bring the pressure down to about 9 bar.