Good Morning.

I've been reading widely on this site/forum and have found it immensely helpful. Sometimes, I think I know too much, based on what I've been reading here.

This is a question I posted on CoffeeCrew this morning as well:

"Ok, after a few months of researching, I broke down and bought a Gaggia New Baby and a Baratza Virtuoso grinder.

I've had a very frustrating first two days with this setup and need some help.

Here's what I'm doing:

1. Grind directly into portafilter.
2. Distribute the beans evenly and level-off the portafilter (Stockfleth's move).
3. Tamp the beans at around 30-40lbs pressure.
4. Gently tap the portafilter with the handle of the tamper.
5. Rotate the tamper with about 20lbs of pressure to polish the grinds
6. Flip the portafilter to drop off excessive grinds
7. Insert portafilter into machine.
8. Press the brew switch and the start the timer.
9. Turn off the brew switch and the timer.

That's my process. With the grinder on 9, I get a shot at around 15 sec. Sometimes it's blonded before that. with the grinder on 8 (finer grind), the shot comes in at around 39 sec. I'm told that the ideal time for a shot should be 20-30 sec. I'm also told that this can vary between machines.

Both settings give me loads of crema, but the shots at 15 sec. are sour (like bile). The shots at 39, are quite bitter. I'm told that ideally, espresso should be the consistency of molten chocolate, and although still bitter, should taste almost sweet and not at all unpleasant. I'm told you should be able to drink it straight without need of cream or sugar. If I adjust my tamp pressure, I can get a shot at 18 sec. (hard tamp on coarse grind) or 35 sec. (light tamp on finer grind)

I phoned espressotec, and they told me there's nothing wrong with my grinder, and that an ideal shot should come in between 15-20 sec.

Help."

If you'd really spent a few months researching, you'd know that the Virtuoso is not very good for espresso.

You don't say how fresh your beans are or where you got them.

Shame on you for lying about doing a few months of research!

Ouch!!!

Actually, it was only after I'd made my purchase and started researching my troubles that I found that out. Everything I'd read on Coffeegeek and CoffeeCrew said it was a great grinder (Apparently Reg Barber uses one with his ECM Giotto). It's not that I didn't spend the time researching, just seems I just didn't research thoroughly enough. My bad. Anyways, it seemed to be the best grinder within my price range. And, for now, it's the one I've got. I only received it two days ago. I could return it, but would have to pay shipping, and perhaps a 15% restocking fee. Even if I did, I'm not sure what I'd replace it with. I cannot afford to spend any more than I did. A Rocky is twice the price. The only other grinders at the store that are within my price range would be a La Pavoni Mini, Saeco MC2002, Saeco Titan, or a Gaggia MM. There's a Gaggia MDF for $100 more, but I've already blown more than my budget.

As for beans, I use "Godfather" espresso from Fratello in Calgary, AB. I pick them up from my local coffee shop 5 hours away. They seem to be adequately fresh (definitely not stale), although I can't tell you the exact date they were roasted.

Assuming that you are using fresh beans (roasted in the last 10 days), there's no reason why you cannot make a good shot with this setup.


When I had a Gaggia Classic, it required a flush of 1-2oz to bring the water temperature down. I suggest that you try flushing 1oz at first, to see how it tastes.

To get your shot volume and timing right, you can also adjust your dose. For example, at the grinder setting that gives you a 39 second pour, reduce your dose by 2gm, and see where your timing/volume lands. Keep the same grinder setting, and adjust does until you are there. If you are getting to or below 14gm, try going to the coarser grinder setting and increasing your dose to get to the desired volume/timing.

I had better luck with blends that produced better ristrettos with my Gaggia. That may be because once the Gaggia produces 2oz from the boiler, the shot temperature gradient from start of shot to finish is very large.

So, if you have a fairly dark roast, try going with a higher dose (16-18gm), and a shot volume around 1oz. Flush before your shot, and wait for the boiler to recover.

Finally, how competent are you with your Stockfleth? Have you tried the WDT?

Mark

I think you are saying you read up a lot over the past few months but you just got the rig and after 2 days of practice you are falling short of your goal, which is ultimately an enjoyable straight shot.

The fact that you are frustrated is a good indication that you care and are interested in getting better. Your current understanding of the end goal regarding flavor is accurate enough with regards to it should not be unpleasant. As to whether it requires milk or sugar is largely a question of personal taste, but not unpleasant should sufficient to guide you for now.

While your grinder may not be up to the task of dialing in a specific shot time, at this point, what you really need, is time and practice. It is likely that even with a more capable grinder you would still be in the face making espresso stage of the game. Practice your technique, save for a better grinder, and temper your face making spro with milk until it gets better.



Gus

Thanks for your response. This is very helpful.

Dogshot wrote:When I had a Gaggia Classic, it required a flush of 1-2oz to bring the water temperature down. I suggest that you try flushing 1oz at first, to see how it tastes.

By "flush" do you mean a blank shot?

I don't have a scale, so I can't measure the dose accurately at the moment, other than by grinding into the bin and using the scoop.

The coffee is a medium roast. The same roast they use at my local cafe. They make great Lattes. Their espresso is ok. I actually used to pull some surprisingly nice shots with it on my old Hamilton Beach, of all things. In that case I had the coffee ground at the shop. Some of those shots were better than these, although they didn't have nearly this much crema.

As for the Stockfleth, I really have no way of knowing how well I'm doing it. I learned it from a video on Youtube. I haven't tried WDT, but I could.

Most helpful. Thank-you.

kk

Bushrod wrote:If you'd really spent a few months researching, you'd know that the Virtuoso is not very good for espresso.

You don't say how fresh your beans are or where you got them.

fizguy wrote:Shame on you for lying about doing a few months of research!

Randy G. wrote:"They seem to be adequately fresh (definitely not stale)..." Hmmm... Months of research, ehh?
Which part of your musical gear would you bet on that? It it were me, I wouldn't put up a Lee Oscar harmonica with a broken reed... "

Comments like these, although cathartic for you, really don't help to address the issues I'm facing. Nor do they encourage newbies like me to continue our efforts to improve our knowledge and technique by seeking out other users.

Thanks.