Flour Sifter for espresso grounds?

by **jmatt** on Wed Nov 15, 2006 12:47 pm

I don't own a flour sifter or I would try this myself before asking:

I noticed the slightly clumpier (is that a word?) look of grounds from doserless grinders, and paid attention to things like the WDT to get the grounds evenly into the filter basket.

I was wondering: Would espresso grounds make it through an old-fashioned flour sifter? If so, would sifting the grounds into the basket not yield an incredibly even, clumpless basket full of espresso?

Has anyone tried this?

by **Martin** on Wed Nov 15, 2006 4:00 pm

jmatt wrote:I don't own a flour sifter or I would try this myself before asking:

I noticed the slightly clumpier (is that a word?) look of grounds from doserless grinders, and paid attention to things like the WDT to get the grounds evenly into the filter basket.

I was wondering: Would espresso grounds make it through an old-fashioned flour sifter? If so, would sifting the grounds into the basket not yield an incredibly even, clumpless basket full of espresso?

Has anyone tried this?

??? Flour sifters are big. Baskets are small. I see a mess on the counter.

OTOH, this very site has an excellent article that addresses clumpyness:
http://www.home-barista.com/weiss-distribution-technique.html

My own mod has been to tape 2 superfine florist wires to the "other" end of my grinder brush to stir the grounds before removing the yogurt cup.
Martin

by **jmatt** on Wed Nov 15, 2006 5:14 pm

Martin wrote:??? Flour sifters are big. Baskets are small. I see a mess on the counter.

Of course I envision a funnel of some sort. (Or a 58mm sifter) :wink:

by **AndyS** on Wed Nov 15, 2006 8:13 pm

jmatt wrote:I was wondering: Would espresso grounds make it through an old-fashioned flour sifter? If so, would sifting the grounds into the basket not yield an incredibly even, clumpless basket full of espresso?

Has anyone tried this?

I tried it two ways:
1. through a flour sifter
2. through a small screen that fit in the exit chute of the Mazzer doser.

Didn't seem to make a noticeable improvement....

by **jmatt** on Wed Nov 15, 2006 10:12 pm

AndyS wrote:I tried it two ways:
1. through a flour sifter
2. through a small screen that fit in the exit chute of the Mazzer doser.

Didn't seem to make a noticeable improvement....

Well - it was a thought. It was worth a try. Thanks for the info.

by HB on Wed Nov 15, 2006 11:36 pm

The WDT helps eliminate clumps and even out the distribution in the portafilter. Doserless grinders benefit the most, grinders like the Mazzer Mini benefit noticeably, and grinders like the Mazzer Robur see little or no improvement. As Martin noted, a flour sifter would be a "messy WDT".

However, your flour sifter comment got me thinking: The doser's vane action helps break up clumps and promotes a more even distribution of the grinds on their way to the portafilter. The vanes' action could be improved. If instead of one set of vanes that simply push the grinds along, what if there were another set mounted above that rotated in the opposite direction, like you see in some flour sifters? The scissor action would break up clumps with every pull. Would it be a lazy man's WDT or a frugal man's Robur-like evenness?

If my idea gets patented, remember you heard it here first. ;-)

by **AndyS** on Wed Nov 15, 2006 11:57 pm

HB wrote:However, your flour sifter comment got me thinking: The doser's vane action helps break up clumps and promotes a more even distribution of the grinds on their way to the portafilter. The vanes' action could be improved. If instead of one set of vanes that simply push the grinds along, what if there were another set mounted above that rotated in the opposite direction, like you see in some flour sifters? The scissor action would break up clumps with every pull. Would it be a lazy man's WDT or a frugal man's Robur-like evenness

That was pretty much what I was trying to accomplish with the screen in the exit chute of the doser. It was flush with the bottom of the doser so that the vanes scraped over it continuously, breaking up clumps as the coffee was swept into the chute.

After messing around with it a bit, I concluded that the technique of continuously flipping the doser lever the entire time that the Mazzer ground the dose did just as good a job eliminating clumps, if not better.

There was some discussion of this stuff here

by HB on Thu Nov 16, 2006 12:20 am

AndyS wrote:That was pretty much what I was trying to accomplish with the screen in the exit chute of the doser. It was flush with the bottom of the doser so that the vanes scraped over it continuously, breaking up clumps as the coffee was swept into the chute.

I'm not an authority on flour sifters, but I vaguely recall two types. The "screen scraper" type similar is what you crafted for your Mazzer doser, and another with two sets of vanes that rotate in opposing directions. For the purposes of coffee grinds, my assumption is that breaking up clumps by screening is less effective than stirring; in fact, the grounds may be compressed by being "extruded" through a screen, producing what appears to be a visually uniform grind, but is actually creating micro-clumps.

I have vague thoughts about micro-clumps, the effectiveness of competition style dosing, and their relationship to burr types. OK, OK, it's really part of my strategy of convincing myself to upgrade to a Mazzer Kony.

by **cpl593h** on Thu Nov 16, 2006 3:50 am

I would think that so much agitation/aeration would accelerate staling.

by **jrtatl** on Thu Nov 16, 2006 11:36 am

cpl593h wrote:I would think that so much agitation/aeration would accelerate staling.

How long do you think Dan plans on agitating the beans? I'm no scientist, but I can't see how an agitation of less than 30 seconds would stale the coffee.

Can you elaborate?

Thanks,


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