Fine grind/light tamp, or vice versa?

by **IMAWriter** on Sun Apr 12, 2009 10:13 pm

OK. I admit (#1) This subject has been covered here and elsewhere on several threads, and (#2) I was a hard tamp junkie :twisted:

With my Anita, 35#'s was the norm.
As I've discovered since entering the ever exasperating, though occasionally hugely rewarding world of the lever pull that (for me) the best results with most blends and SO's comes with a tighter grind, and an ACCURATE/LEVEL, but subdued tamp. NOT a haphazard tamp, but straight and true. My experience (spritzers) have proven this leveling is muy importante.
I measured my tamp pressure at between 10 and 12#'s over 20 attempts on a digital scale. Hopefully, I'll get more consistent.
This fine/light technique has resulted in marked improvement in sweetness, and even more in clarity, especially while pulling in a single basket. Then, I go really fine. More fruit in the Misty Valley, more cherry chocolate in the Ophiolite. Of course, all the other factors, temperature, dose/distribution must also fall into a consistent pattern. Yep, there's that word CONSISTENT again.
I know there are open boiler folks (Caravel, La Peppina, etc) who hardly tamp at all. They're another breed! :lol:

Along with all this, I fuss less with the coffee, though the yogurt cup (thanks Mr Weiss) still comes into play quite often.
So, lets have a poll on which way this river is flowing: Fine grind/light tamp, or coarser grind, hard tamp. And why. I'm always looking to learn.
Fine grind/hard tampers need not apply..LOL
Just kidding.

by **GVDub** on Sun Apr 12, 2009 10:49 pm

So far, my attempts at anything other than a very light tamp with Clarabelle have left me with a less than satisfying shot. So count me in the fine and light camp because of the results I get in the cup.

It'll be interesting to see if the Zerowatt/Caravel Little behaves any differently. Looking forward to finding out.

by **drdna** on Sun Apr 12, 2009 11:08 pm

Funny you should ask, as I just was spouting off at the mouth about this very subject in another thread:

drdna wrote:I have to disagree that tamping does not aid in distribution.

In my opinion, It DOES.

Think about it. If you have a pile of sand in your sandbox and push down on top, what happens? It goes out to the sides, redistributing the grains of sand more evenly. In fact, this doesn't require a lot of pressure to accomplish.

The same with coffee grounds, to a point. At a certain point, the grounds will interlock and any added compression force will be absorbed by the mechanical torsion of the multigrain structure of the bed, much like a strain gauge, unless enough force is applied asymmetrically to the bed to disrupt the structure (which is how we get cracks and fissures).

So basically, a light tamping force helps to redistribute the grounds a bit.

A firmer tamping force makes a solid bed that might resist the water's disruptive force that can redistribute the grounds. To a point it will also compensate thusly for a coarse grind.

A very firm tamping force increases the risk of channeling.

So I let the grind be as fine as is necessary since the grind is homogeneous throughout the basket, unlike the tamp. Then just a light tamp to settle the grounds and keep it from messing up the showerhead. The way I see it, the more even the distribution and the less you mess with things, the better the cup. I just try to let the espresso "express" itself. >o<

by **mrmekmek** on Mon Apr 13, 2009 1:34 am

One vote for fine grind/light tamp.

I have an Alexia and in my limited experience and trials I find a light tamp works as well as a heavy one (and with less risk of a poorly executed heavy tamp). This lets me concentrate more on grind, distribution and other things - in essence removing one more variable for a relative newbie. I just basically tamp the weight of the tamper to smooth and level the puck.

Occasionally I will tamp harder to correct for realizing I forgot to tighten the grind after I have filled the portafilter, but even then I find it doesn't make that much difference.

Note that I dose at what I guess is called low - 14 to 15gr. I also realize I am just learning, and can imagine some day trying to achieve different flavours with higher coarser doses combined with heavier tamps.

by **peacecup** on Mon Apr 13, 2009 5:37 am

I like a firm tamp (probably less than 30lb though), and usually a full basket.

Its my (probably naive) belief that the grounds should stay in place during preinfusion and brewing. A light tamp means the grinds are floating about in the basket, and they find their home as pressure forces them down. If I fill the basket and tamp firmly I imagine my puck as a static matrix through which the water flows more or less constantly, slowing extracting the elixar of love.

Well anyway, every time I try the light tamp my shots go blond much earlier. Maybe because its less coffee, but I imagine its because the grounds are floating around the basket getting unevenly extracted.

PC

by **michaelbenis** on Mon Apr 13, 2009 6:08 am

Agree with Adrian on distribution. I think tamping is to do with that, getting the grounds to settle evenly, more than it is about compression, or forming some sort of plug, if that makes sense. I reckon plugging is also more likely to cause spritzes.

You can of course grind coarser and tamp harder to compensate, but in my experience this results in a less complete extraction which is particularly noticeable with SOs, especially the more acid.fruitier ones.

So, my experience is the same as Rob's: grind fine, level with finger, Stockfleths, tamp lightly.

It must be said that like several others replying thus far, I am however a lever fan.

It could be that some of these things are machine dependent - like whether one leaves a little space under the shower screen....

by **timo888** on Mon Apr 13, 2009 7:11 am

peacecup wrote:... I imagine my puck as a static matrix through which the water flows more or less constantly, slowing extracting the elixar of love. ...every time I try the light tamp my shots go blond much earlier. ... I imagine its because the grounds are floating around the basket getting unevenly extracted.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNn361umypM

by **Elbasso** on Mon Apr 13, 2009 7:34 am

I have actually never noticed any difference between the hard and the soft tamp. But, after reading this thread I decided to experiment with the concept once again and came up with the same results as always. The tamping pressure made zero difference. Shot length, volume, taste, body, blonding, everything stayed constant. This seems kinda logical to me as the 9bars of pressure applied to the coffeebed is much more than the pressure of the manual tamp. As I see it, the tamp is just for leveling.

Could be that this is a pre-infusion thing of course. I have no experience with levers or rotary pump machines.

Cheers,

Bas

by **IMAWriter** on Mon Apr 13, 2009 11:54 am

mrmekmek wrote:One vote for fine grind/light tamp.

Occasionally I will tamp harder to correct for realizing I forgot to tighten the grind after I have filled the portafilter, but even then I find it doesn't make that much difference.

Been there! :oops:

by **malachi** on Mon Apr 13, 2009 12:03 pm

Depends on the coffee, the espresso machine and the grinder.


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