i have an idea
it may be a good or it may be a bad idea, please feel free to shoot it down ...

to make a flat disc of paper like the type used in the Illy pods to place on top of the puck after tamping and before pulling the shot

this would act sort of like a condom (or a diaper? ) for the group head,
i.e. to help keep the group head cleaner and to put a lid on top sludge before approaching the knock box

anybody know where to get or how to specify such paper?
ds

DennisS wrote:it may be a good or it may be a bad idea, please feel free to shoot it down ...

This sounds like a solution looking for a problem.

A quick spritz of water rinses the dispersion screen. If a few errant grounds on the sides of the dispersion screen really bothers you, a quick wiggle rinse will remove most of them. And if you're still bothered by the 0.03 grams of coffee that remain, a couple swipes with a JoeGlo brush and a wiggle rinse should do it.

DennisS wrote:to make a flat disc of paper like the type used in the Illy pods to place on top of the puck after tamping and before pulling the shot...anybody know where to get or how to specify such paper?
ds

This sort of disc can be easily obtained from any laboratory supply company. It is referred to as Buchner funnel filtration paper. It comes in all imaginable porosity and diameter combinations. I imagine you would want the coarsest possible type.

Problems I see with this approach: the added flow restriction of the filter paper will affect the flow rate of the espresso and change the overall extraction profile. The sides are unsealed, so the water may be forced to channel around the filter paper. It won't keep coffee oils from getting to the screen, which will still need some maintenance.

Then again, pods seem to work fine. Maybe this would work, too. It might be worth a try. I would get some pods first to get an estimate of what the appropriate filter type would be. Maybe you can even try disassembling a few pods and placing the empty pod paper on top of your tamped espresso first, just to see how it works.

DennisS wrote:to make a flat disc of paper like the type used in the Illy pods to place on top of the puck after tamping and before pulling the shot

This was discussed on alt.coffee a long time ago. I don't think it ever caught on because it doesn't accomplish much.

I remember those discussions, My guess now is that if it does anything at all, it's more likely to hurt than to help. For a good shot, you want the puck to expand, and you don't want it crashing into the shower screen, a demi-filter or anything else.

If the OP has a problem with fouled shower screens, a lower dose or deeper basket, so that there's adequate head space, may be a simpler way to go.

thanks for your comments
i will put the notion to rest

what promoted this was that on my cremina i pull about 2-3 cleaning shots for each real one and the boiler isn't that big

i have a lower end machine in the office that uses the Illy pods and i had noticed the much reduced mess factor, actually for a $150 plastic machine it does a pretty decent job, it's a Delongi, don't know if they still make it
ds

DennisS wrote:what promoted this was that on my cremina i pull about 2-3 cleaning shots for each real one and the boiler isn't that big

Hmm-m, clearing the dispersion screen should require no more than 1 ounce. At the end of the session, I turn off the machine, empty the boiler by flushing through the group, and then run a brush/towel along the channel to get the last grounds. I avoid long cleaning flushes between extractions because it spikes the brew temperature.

DennisS wrote:i have an idea
it may be a good or it may be a bad idea, please feel free to shoot it down ...

to make a flat disc of paper like the type used in the Illy pods to place on top of the puck after tamping and before pulling the shot

this would act sort of like a condom (or a diaper? ) for the group head,
i.e. to help keep the group head cleaner and to put a lid on top sludge before approaching the knock box

anybody know where to get or how to specify such paper?
ds

And to keep the basket holes from getting clogged, you could put a piece on the bottom of the basket before dosing.

I think this one can safely be added to the list I'm trying to get started.

If this helps to increase your personal enjoyment of the process then why not, but I do not see how it could improve the espresso.


Gus

I use this method on my Cremina. The idea of using filter discs as I understood was not only to keep the shower screen and piston cylinder clean from coffee oils but also to reduce the violent attack from the water on the puck as can be the case in lever machine, kind of improving the water distribution.

timo888 wrote:And to keep the basket holes from getting clogged, you could put a piece on the bottom of the basket before dosing.

that would mean the espresso has to pass a filter and filters are known to reduce the coffee oils. A filter disc on top should have very little impact on the taste of the espresso as only hot water goes through. If the filter is rinsed in water before use the it is a little easier to place it on top of the basket.

so where do you get them matias ?
ds

Standard filter cones for making filter coffee, size N°4. I staple two of them together, there is enough space to draw three circles and then I just cut with a pair of scissors. That gives 12 discs.

I use a poly filter that was recommended by Rasqual for use with an Aeropress. The filter allows complete oil extraction with no fines. Your post has me thinking it might work for use in my Cremina. I'll give it a try today and let you know the results. The poly filter comes from McMaster. Very inexpensive stuff.

Steve in Ft. Worth

texican wrote:... with an Aeropress. The filter allows complete oil extraction ......
Steve in Ft. Worth

Perhaps good for the aeropress but for this purpose a filter that does not let oils pass would be better since the idea is to keep fines and oils away from the shower screen and piston cylinder.

drdna wrote:
Problems I see with this approach: the added flow restriction of the filter paper will affect the flow rate of the espresso and change the overall extraction profile. The sides are unsealed, so the water may be forced to channel around the filter paper. It won't keep coffee oils from getting to the screen, which will still need some maintenance.

Well, based on my limited observations I think the use of a poly-felt filter may become a fixture in my shot-pulling routine.

Here's what I did:

Using a Cremina filter basket, I lightly traced a circle on the poly-felt material. Then, I cut inside the circle to fit in the basket. Following my usual routine of grind, WDT, Stockfleth, Staub tamp I placed the poly filter on top of the puck and pulled my shot (SM Liquid Amber). The shot was thick and creamy with the same characteristics as my subsequent shot without the poly filter.

The major difference is that after using the poly, the were virtually no grinds in the grouphead. I still performed my cleaning routine with a grouphead brush, wet paper towel and a cleansing flush to purge the oils.

I performed an identical routine using a poly filter cut to fit a standard 58mm basket for my Sirena semi-auto (Big thanks to Roastarama for his terrific tutorial!). I grind a bit finer for the Sirena but the shot came out fantastic. Loads of crema and full of fruit and sweet, smoky caramel. Flavor profile was identical to the shot pulled without the poly filter on top of the puck.

There was, however a difference in post-shot cleanup from the Cremina. With the Cremina, the puck was solid and the poly filter was completely dry. With the Sirena, the poly filter was stuck to the grouphead and the puck was slightly soupy. This may be a result of the Sirena not having a three-way solenoid. There were a FEW grinds left on the grouphead but I think perhaps that was due to me cutting a little too much inside the circle that I traced on the poly.

Anyway, my extremely early conclusions lead me to believe that using the poly filter greatly reduces grind retention residue on the grouphead. I'll still follow my regular routine of flushing the grouphead but like the OP, I usually flushed two or three times to clean after pulling a shot. Now, I only have to do one short flush. The poly filter seems to not restrict flow extraction and thus not alter flavor profile while simultaneously greatly reducing post-shot clean up.

I admit that my cupping skills are probably not up to most folks on this forum however I'm pretty sure I can taste the difference in an "apples to apples" comparison where the only variance is the poly filter IMOHP.

Questions? Suggestions?

Steve, in Ft. Worth

Steve, you say cut to fit in the basket. Try to cut a disc large enough so you can place it on top of the basket. If you rinse it before and just dry it by folding it in a towel it will still be damp and easy to place on top. If there is a difference I'd say you have less or no grinds at all on the shower screen. At least this is the case with a filter for making filter coffee and my Cremina.

There are punches known as Arch Punches that could cut a nice circle with one whack of a hammer, i use them all the time, you could stack up a bunch of sheets and do it on a cutting board

MSC has a bunch, i am sure McMaster Carr does too

but please tell me more about the poly (felt?) material like a part number or something ?
thanks
ds

Dennis, the poly filter can be found at this link http://preview.tinyurl.com/x39j. There's thread on CG at this link http://preview.tinyurl.com/cr6avj that discusses the material. You can also do a keyword search on Aerobie Aeropress at the CoffeeGeek website. I'll keep experimenting with different sized cutouts as suggested by Mathias.

Steve, in Ft. Worth

thanks for the info Steve
some is on the way
McMaster is a pretty amazing web site
ds

It is a novel idea but I dont see a reason for it. The water pouring onto the puck is no more violent than a rotary pump machine. If you do a second pump on the lever you are not going to suck much into the piston and anything that does get pulled in will be purged when you pull the shot. I used (and still use) a lever for several years and never had any noteworthy buildup on the piston when I would clean them and that was only once or twice a year. It just seems like a solution looking for a problem, but to each his own.