This is not a new issue... as some will recall... I let it die, and now I'm starting to get interested in fixing it once and for all since I believe my machine and grinder are more than adequate.

Grinder being an older Elektra MXCS (or something like that, it's a large, commercial grinder that looks silly in a domestic kitchen!)

Here's the deal:

Too fast extractions, usually lighter blonde color. 1 click on the grinder finer typically chokes the machine, even with a light tamp. If I leave the grind alone and lean on the tamp (major lean, way more than 30-40lbs tamp) I can slow the extraction some, but even then it's still too fast.

So that's the mode that I've been in for months. I drink lattes, so they provide a lot of forgiveness, hooray. I want to move on.

Tonight I tried two things, at the same time. bad I know. But the results maybe might help someone help me with my problem.

I decreased the dose and made the grind finer.

Round 1: Wow, same tamp, finer grind, and didn't choke the machine. Flow was still fast, blonde, and thin.

Round 2: Well, hey, this is working well, so lets make it one more click finer. Dose was a little larger the first time, and that choked the machine. Backed off on the dose and the flow was still fast (not as fast as the last 6 months tho), but the flow was still very thin, and color to me was very blonde.

Today's experiment is with Sept 30th bagged coffee (Element 114 from Barefoot), that was opened today.

Last point, the machine's brew pressure gauge, with the blank "plate" (brain fart here), installed, reads just under 10bar.

I certainly think part of my issues have been overdosed. But I think I have other demons as well... there's no reason that I shouldn't be able to get a reasonable, thick, flow from this machine and coffee... At least, I believe this to be true.

Thanks in advance!

What you are describing can't happen with a commercial espresso grinder (or even home espresso grinders) if the grinder is working and the coffee is even semi-fresh, i.e less than 6 weeks old. Either the grinder needs new burrs, or realigned ones, or you are doing it or seeing it wrong.

BTW, on an E61, the pre-infusion takes around 10 seconds; so not seeing even one drop for the first ten seconds after turning on the pump is not a choke, it's normal operation.

BTW, on an E61, the pre-infusion takes around 10 seconds; so not seeing even one drop for the first ten seconds after turning on the pump is not a choke, it's normal operation.

I've always been somewhat confused by this - So does this 10 seconds count towards the extraction time for a 25-30 second pour?

I have 3 sets of burrs... I assume the only useful way I would know if they need to be replaced is to take it to a repair place, or hope that there's someone in the bay area that's knowledgeable enough to look at them and tell me.

And having them re-aligned?! Yowza. I can;t imagine what that would entail.

Thanks

Most of the Elektra grinders are rebranded MACAP's, you can see the lineup at Elektras web page. If it is any of these, it should be capable of grinding espresso with no problem. Did you get the grinder new or was it used? Without seeing your process it is hard to day but what you are describing could be from massive channeling, worn burrs, bad coffee or bad technique. Do you have a gram scale, can you weigh your dose?

Light crema can be due to low temp What is your brew temperature?

I time from the first drop. The range is ~20-40 seconds.

How do you measure your dose? Volume? Time? Weight?

Is the showerscreen clearly visible in the spent puck? If not, the the puck should be 'soupy' if you're grinding fine enough.

Since you have 3 sets of burrs, was a set replaced? Replacement is a 'clean room' operation and the burrs must be evenly tightened.

cannonfodder wrote:Most of the Elektra grinders are rebranded MACAP's, you can see the lineup at Elektras web page. If it is any of these, it should be capable of grinding espresso with no problem. Did you get the grinder new or was it used? Without seeing your process it is hard to day but what you are describing could be from massive channeling, worn burrs, bad coffee or bad technique. Do you have a gram scale, can you weigh your dose?

It's the MXPC. Used.

I do not have a scale, though I think I should rectify that since this is now a re-occuring problem... though I doubt I'll use it much, at least we'll know what my normal dose is.

I dose into a small dish of sorts, and throw that into the ridiculously oversized hopper ... Grind that into the PF, level off the top, and tamp. I "level" in such a way that the top of the untamped puck is a weebit concave, which matches the convex-ness of my tamper.

I don't tap or knock or anything on the PF. Dose, level, tamp, lock, and pull.

Someone asked about temp: The machine says 216*, and my understanding from reading is that it reads about 10* higher on the display than what hits the puck. I have no way to measure this, but the incup temp of the espresso doesn;t seem particularly off from what I get at Barefoot, so I'm not overly worried about it.. I think it should be in the ballpark for "decent", and if I ever get the rest of this figured out I can tweak then to make it even better than decent

cafeIKE wrote:Is the showerscreen clearly visible in the spent puck? If not, the the puck should be 'soupy' if you're grinding fine enough.

Since you have 3 sets of burrs, was a set replaced? Replacement is a 'clean room' operation and the burrs must be evenly tightened.

showerscreen is clearly visible on the puck when I dose as described above. when I "underdose" from that procedure then the puck ends up being soupy/wet looking.

Replacement was done by yours truly, in the kitchen. I made an effort to tighten evenly however, but who knows how successful that effort was. How important is this?

Maybe I'll talk to one of the baristas at Barefoot and see if I can talk them into trying to pull a decent shot on my machine.. Or maybe there's a bay-area espresso guru around here that would want to check out the VBM, and help me out at the same time

No big surprise to anyone here, I burned through a bag of coffee today already, just trying to get something respectable tasting (or even looking for that matter, lol) ... Not successful. Swill.

buzzmc wrote:showerscreen is clearly visible on the puck when I dose as described above. when I "underdose" from that procedure then the puck ends up being soupy/wet looking.

So....?

Tamp, lock, remove- if there is a mark from the shower screen you used too much coffee. If the machine has a center screw that protrudes, a small mark is OK. More than that and you rick fracturing the tamped puck when locking and that causes channeling, thin body, and early blonding.

I do not know why, but my pucks are somewhat soupy and wet on top as well if removed immediately after a pull. Funny though, I don't ever taste the pucks... I only drink the espresso and it has been excellent...

Randy G. wrote:Tamp, lock, remove- if there is a mark from the shower screen you used too much coffee. If the machine has a center screw that protrudes, a small mark is OK. More than that and you rick fracturing the tamped puck when locking and that causes channeling, thin body, and early blonding.

Locked, loaded, unloaded, and no marks. Did that several times w/my normal dose just now... So that's good news at least.

Randy G. wrote:So....?
... If the machine has a center screw that protrudes, a small mark is OK. More than that and you rick fracturing the tamped puck when locking and that causes channeling, thin body, and early blonding.

The machine is a Vibiemme Double Domo. No Screw.

We've already dismissed the hitting the shower screen on an e61 It's a non issue. Try it.

buzzmc wrote:Replacement was done by yours truly, in the kitchen. I made an effort to tighten evenly however, but who knows how successful that effort was. How important is this?

Extremely. See Burrs, Carriers, Micrometers & Math...

216°F maybe a bit low. Try 220°-224°F