Espro Toroid pitcher - a newbie's review - Page 2

by **LadyC** on Sun Feb 01, 2009 12:41 am

Thanks.

Definitely, by far, the best rosetta I've done. I got lucky that I caught it on camera. I made another latte this afternoon, filled the cup too far before starting the design, and ended up with basically nothing. Practice practice practice...

by **Beezer** on Sun Feb 01, 2009 12:50 am

Great work! That rosetta looked really good.

Strange, I didn't see much of a whirlpool or other turbulence in the milk while you were steaming, but you still got nice microfoam when you were done, so maybe the shape of the pitcher does help. Intriguing.

by **LadyC** on Sun Feb 01, 2009 1:28 am

The shape of the toroid is kind of hard to see in the video. The best pitcher angle for the camera wasn't the best angle for the toroid, unfortunately. That's why I was moving it around so much near the end - moving the toroid around to collapse the bubbles that formed earlier on. Unlike a whirlpool, the toroid doesn't give you a lot to look at from the surface. We're left to assume that the action is all down below.

I made another clip that gives a better view of the turbulence:

by **IMAWriter** on Sun Feb 01, 2009 1:38 am

GC7 wrote:Nice review

I may need to get one of those pitchers because I can't seem to get good results with a standard pitcher and my Anita. I can get foam and I can get hot milk below but I can't seem to incorporate the two and I've been working at allbeit not very hard for longer then you. .

As a former Anita owner (the older model) I can attest that it is an excellent machine for beautiful espresso shots, but I also had trouble get good microfoam with several differing pitchers. Not so with my Cremina.
I couldn't seem to open Jims link for a peek, but the Toroid (love the name) would have to be small, as the space between the wand and the machine's body is way small.

by HB on Sun Feb 01, 2009 9:37 am

This past Friday I brought in the Toroid for our usual get-together at Counter Culture. They have a three group La Marzocco so we could easily prepare side-by-side cappuccinos. For comparison, I grabbed the smallest pitcher in the cooler, which turned out to be a Motta 16 ounce pitcher.

I prepared the milk while David simultaneously pulled two espressos. Needless to say, the La Marzocco has tons of steaming power, so it was easy to pour two cappuccinos within seconds of each other. I was skeptical of Espro's claim of improving the steam action by enhancing the shape of the vortex, but the milk did roll very well and expanded more than the Motto pitcher. That said, the tasters preferred the milk steamed in the Motto all three rounds because it was sweeter and creamier. For this taste panel and this equipment, the Toroid's enhanced air injection wasn't an improvement.

by **LadyC** on Sun Feb 01, 2009 1:13 pm

HB wrote:This past Friday I brought in the Toroid for our usual get-together at Counter Culture. They have a three group La Marzocco so we could easily prepare side-by-side cappuccinos. For comparison, I grabbed the smallest pitcher in the cooler, which turned out to be a Motta 16 ounce pitcher.

I prepared the milk while David simultaneously pulled two espressos. Needless to say, the La Marzocco has tons of steaming power, so it was easy to pour two cappuccinos within seconds of each other. I was skeptical of Espro's claim of improving the steam action by enhancing the shape of the vortex, but the milk did roll very well and expanded more than the Motto pitcher. That said, the tasters preferred the milk steamed in the Motto all three rounds because it was sweeter and creamier. For this taste panel and this equipment, the Toroid's enhanced air injection wasn't an improvement.

Thanks for doing the comparison. It does raise one question in my mind. You noted that the Espro milk expanded more. Was your steaming technique the same for the two jugs? Assuming you actively stretched for the same amount of time in both, I would be curious if stretching less in the Toroid would improve its taste and texture. I'm going to do an experiment this morning and see how much expansion I get by skipping stretching completely.

by **GC7** on Sun Feb 01, 2009 3:46 pm

IMAWriter wrote:As a former Anita owner (the older model) I can attest that it is an excellent machine for beautiful espresso shots, but I also had trouble get good microfoam with several differing pitchers. Not so with my Cremina.
I couldn't seem to open Jims link for a peek, but the Toroid (love the name) would have to be small, as the space between the wand and the machine's body is way small.

One thing that this thread has done to help my incorporation of foam and milk is that diagram of the espro pitcher and the steam wand straight down the length of the pitcher.

I've found that I get better stretching of the milk and foam in the first part of the process when the tip is at an angle. I can see the whirlpooling of the milk that way and the sound is what I think is right. I have been sinking the wand at the same angle without seeing a whirlpool and I've been getting poor results. When I use the position shown in the Toroid pitcher diagram the whirlpooling is much more visible. I still need practice pouring but its better then it was. Still, Rob I tend to agree that Anita does not have that dynamic steaming seen on most videos.

by **Rybolt** on Thu Feb 05, 2009 1:08 pm

IMAWriter wrote:As a former Anita owner (the older model) I can attest that it is an excellent machine for beautiful espresso shots, but I also had trouble get good microfoam with several differing pitchers. Not so with my Cremina.

I don't think Anita and her steam power is a limiting factor, I accomplished good micro foam in my first week with her, with stock tip and a generic pitcher. I am unfamiliar with the Cremina, just curious why it is so superior in this category?

by **IMAWriter** on Thu Feb 05, 2009 2:11 pm

Rybolt wrote:I don't think Anita and her steam power is a limiting factor, I accomplished good micro foam in my first week with her, with stock tip and a generic pitcher. I am unfamiliar with the Cremina, just curious why it is so superior in this category?

Well. aren't YOU special! :lol:

Antonio, I had much better success with an optional tip from Chris Coffee.
The Cremina is a powerhouse. 6oz of whole milk done in around 18 seconds or so. Lush micro-
foam.
I loved my Anita, terrific shots, and solid as a rock. I had the older one, before the new steam and hot water wands were added.

by **Rybolt** on Thu Feb 05, 2009 3:44 pm

IMAWriter wrote:Well. aren't YOU special!

No I am not, I didn't mean it like that. I am just saying, regardless of steam tip and fancy pitchers, I think the Anita is relatively easy to get good micro foam. I did go through almost 2 gallons of milk, but that's the only way to learn.

For me the amount of seconds to get micro foam is not important, so stock tip is fine for me for now.

It sounded like you were saying Anita is good for espresso, but not acquiring micro foam, and I think she is great for both.

by **Rybolt** on Thu Feb 05, 2009 4:08 pm

Beezer wrote:GC7, you may want to try a different steam tip for your Anita. I had trouble steaming with my Anita's stock tip, but it became much easier (though also somewhat slow) with the two-hole tip from espressoparts.com. Later I upgraded to the four-hole steam wand for the La Spaziale, and the speed and quality of the microfoam both improved greatly. However, for a cheap fix the espressoparts tip is very effective. It's certainly cheaper than buying a new, high-end pitcher, and more likely to give you good results.

I keep forgetting there is an older version of the Anita in the wild. Anyhow, I am a little confused here, I just got my Anita about a week ago [assuming the "new" version ] Anyhow, the tip that came on it has two holes, how does that differ than this one (below) ?

Beezer wrote:http://www.espressoparts.com/product/F_134_2/Two_Hole_Steam_Tip.html

Beezer - thanks for the tip on the 4 hole tip

I am eager to try this upgrade although stock tip is decent.

by **Beezer** on Fri Feb 06, 2009 3:51 pm

The stock tip on my Anita has slightly larger and wider spaced holes than the espressoparts tip. The smaller holes seem to be less prone to making large bubbles, which makes microfoam relatively easy to create. However, there is also less steam velocity, so it's harder to get the milk to spin properly for texturing, plus the time for steaming is fairly long. As I recall, it took close to a minute to steam around six ounces of milk to 150 degrees. Then again, steaming with the stock tip also takes too long and doesn't always produce good results, at least in my experience.

The four hole La Spaziale tip is nice because it increases the amount of steam being released, thus improving the speed and whirlpool action, but it still has small enough holes to prevent the formation of large bubbles. I can steam six ounces of milk in about 30 seconds, and the microfoam is almost always very smooth and creamy. Note that I'm talking about the tip with the smaller .9mm holes, not the standard La Spaz tip which lets out too much steam for Anita's boiler and heating element to keep up.

http://www.chriscoffee.com/products/home/repairpartssection3/new4holesteamtip

by **Arpi** on Fri Feb 06, 2009 7:09 pm

I made my own toroid

I have a Breville pitcher that had some bell shape. Then I used the round back of a chisel and bang bang bang! I hammered it in the middle from the back

Now I have a toroid jeje. I'll try tomorrow and see what I get

by **Arpi** on Sat Feb 07, 2009 10:46 am

Didn't do any difference to me. This was an old Breville frothing pitcher that I didn't use because it was big and wide.

I found my luck by changing milk brands and changing milk volume for a small pitcher. A little over the middle does it for me. I don't put it in the freezer.

Cheers

by **cannonfodder** on Mon Feb 09, 2009 1:26 am

You may find that the pitcher shape is more critical on smaller machines. I would imagine steam tip design and boiler size/amps will have more of an impact. With the smaller (1.5 liter and below) machines the shape of the pitcher may have a legitimate impact on the steaming action. With big boiler, high pressure commercial machines you have enough oomph behind a big 4 hole steam tip to whip up a vortex in a one gallon bucket.

by **cksaurus** on Sun Jul 05, 2009 5:17 am

I might post a bit late but am interested to know if this toroid pitcher works for 3 hole steam tip like the new Silvia v3. From the illustration on the Espro website, it seems the jug is designed for single hole tip.

by **DavidMLewis** on Sun Jul 05, 2009 5:16 pm

I use it with a two-hole tip and it's fine. I imagine a three-hole tip would do just as well, as would anything else going down and out.

Best,
David


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