Hey all,

I'm a brand new member here and also very new to the coffee world. I purchased a Saeco Xsmall Plus a couple weeks ago and I'm really enjoying having a cup or two every day. Now, I have a question.....

I read that the best brew temperature is around 202F but what would be the ideal serving temperature at the cup (immediately after brewing)? I check the temperature at the cup and it was only at 146F. I used a digital food thermometer (which I use for my food when I use my smoker) and its accuracy was checked with boiling water.

Thanks.

Trying espresso at room temperature can be an interesting experience, as can be removing the crema... James Hoffman has put quite a few words out into cyber space on these topics...

another_jim wrote:Brewed coffee is best when it's left to cool about five minutes, down to about 130F. Espresso, on the other hand, is not just about taste, but also the texture of the crema. Since this dissipates very quickly, espresso should be drunk immediately after making it -- the more you delay, the more it becomes strong coffee, not espresso.

There is a proviso; your machine may make fake espresso, not real espresso. All home superautos make fake espresso, and many low end home semi-autos do too. Any machine that uses a trick portafilter, basket or other nozzle device to spray the coffee into to the cup is making fake espresso. You can make a foam out of plain water with a few drops of oil added, if you spray it through a nozzle with enough pressure; but that doesn't make it espresso.

Thanks for the reply, Jim.

However, while I appreciate your opinion on my machine, it still does not answer my question.....

I found a post in another thread that sort of answers my question.....

HB wrote:Rob's answer is correct per the definition from the Italian Espresso National Institute:

• Necessary portion of ground coffee 7 g ± 0,5
• Exit temperature of water from the unit 88°C ± 2°C
• Temperature of the drink in the cup 67°C ± 3°C
• Entry water pressure 9 bar ± 1
• Percolation time 25 seconds ± 2,5 seconds
• Viscosity at 45°C > 1,5 mPa s
• Total fat > 2 mg/ml
• Caffeine < 100 mg/cup
• Millilitres in the cup (including foam) 25 ml ± 2,5

Most baristas I know pull doubles, although there are single espresso aficionados who cite better flavor profile and/or less caffeine as the reasons for their preference.

If I go by these standards then I guess my Saeco is doing alright since it's an Italian machine but I don't get to be all fancy like the rest of you folks. Maybe I will invest in a semi-auto one day.

those "standards" are hardly universal or even widely accepted or practiced.

+1

Don't take offense. The criticism of your machine isn't directed at you, it's directed at the machine. And you should know that quite a few of us walked the same road.

Espresso isn't just strong, dark coffee, it's a method of extraction. Over the years the method has changed and evolved to the point that the way espresso was made in the old pre-WWII vertical machines wouldn't qualify as espresso any more.

Similarly, your current machine doesn't make an espresso extraction. It doesn't matter what temperature it brews at (which in the case of your machine is actually a very wide range of temperatures), or what temperature you serve at... the liquid in the cup isn't espresso.

The lines involved in making the determination of "is it or isn't it" can be very fuzzy and hard to pin down. But not in the case of what you're using. A pressurized portafilter is an absolute disqualification. Who makes the rules? We do.

BDL

I agree with Jim that we needn't restrict our answer to exclusively what was asked; to do so would be rather boring. But returning to the OP...

chinamon wrote:I read that the best brew temperature is around 202F but what would be the ideal serving temperature at the cup (immediately after brewing)? I check the temperature at the cup and it was only at 146F.

The temperature in the cup is rather misleading. The cup itself absorbs a significant amount of heat. If you want to measure the approximate in-cup temperature, use a Styrofoam cup held tightly against the grouphead. Those who want more precision use a thermocouple mounted to the bottom of the basket:


From Brew ratio vs brew temperature

This is about as close to the true exit temperature as you can get. Once you take into consideration the loss of heat as the stream falls into the cup and the cup itself, the 67°C ± 3°C temperature of the drink mentioned by the IENI seems reasonable.

chinamon wrote:If I go by these standards then I guess my Saeco is doing alright since it's an Italian machine but I don't get to be all fancy like the rest of you folks.

Jim's suggestion to stop by a top-notch cafe to learn what you're missing is good advice.

HB wrote:I agree with Jim that we needn't restrict our answer to exclusively what was asked; to do so would be rather boring. But returning to the OP...


Jim's suggestion to stop by a top-notch cafe to learn what you're missing is good advice.

Thank you. Now THIS is a proper reply which answers my question and gives me the cold, hard facts..... Rather than just a "your machine sucks". I already knew that a super-auto machine didn't make real espresso but I bought it for its simplicity. I wake up at 4am for work and sure don't want to be fiddling around making noise and waking everybody up. Thanks again.