Espresso runs too fast in entry-level machine - Page 2

Beginner and pro baristas share tips and tricks for making espresso.
691175002
Posts: 89
Joined: 8 years ago

#11: Post by 691175002 »

You can slow down a pressurized portafilter by up-dosing and tamping with more pressure. It is much easier if you have an actual tamper, and not the plastic stick the machines sometimes come with.

Marcelnl
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#12: Post by Marcelnl »

Sideshow wrote:Ah, so you're saying that you have to use a pressurized with that machine? Well yeah, then you can't use a bottomless, sadly. There will only be so much you can do then to improve the results.
Not saying that, but starting with a bottomless or even non pressurized pf will show that you need a grinder, the ppf may prevent a need for that....all depends on what the TS is after, I'd say he is best off if he's able to get to the point he can make an espresso that satisfies him with the least investment...that may involve getting another machine and decent grinder but not necessarily so...
LMWDP #483

Sideshow
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#13: Post by Sideshow »

Getting a bottomless still has utility though. Entry level equipment may be able to produce good outputs, but the margin of error will be smaller. A bottomless will still tell you how you're doing, or what you might need to improve. Accordingly, it still has merit.

Marcelnl
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#14: Post by Marcelnl »

But it is not about what we think is better, it's his experiment..
LMWDP #483

Sideshow
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#15: Post by Sideshow replying to Marcelnl »

But he turned to us for advice, which we are rendering :)

RyanJE
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#16: Post by RyanJE »

Sideshow wrote:I hear you, but to me it doesn't get any more basic than distribution and tamping technique. That he can control without spending a chunk of change on a new grinder. Perfecting distribution and tamping will maximize any equipment he already has, and without a bottomless PF it'll be extremely difficult to see what exactly is going wrong.

Again, I guess what I'm saying is to ditch the bottomless and preground coffee, but maybe the OP can't do that yet?

It does get more basic, much more, quality coffee is the single largest factor. You can have the best gear in the world but if you use stale pre ground junk, it's gonna taste like.... Stale pre ground junk.

This is why we would be doing the OP a dis-service focusing on basket prep and shot diagnosis... IMHO.
I drink two shots before I drink two shots, then I drink two more....

Sideshow
Posts: 380
Joined: 8 years ago

#17: Post by Sideshow »

RyanJE wrote:It does get more basic, much more, quality coffee is the single largest factor. You can have the best gear in the world but if you use stale pre ground junk, it's gonna taste like.... Stale pre ground junk.

This is why we would be doing the OP a dis-service focusing on basket prep and shot diagnosis... IMHO.
I agree that you have to focus on quality coffee, but it can't be that alone. Using quality coffee without developing technique will not work; focusing on technique without using serviceable coffee will not work either.

My advice to the OP: (1) get the best grinder you can afford; (2) use fresh coffee; (3) learn the skills that make for good baristas at any level (distribution, appropriate dosing and grind fineness, consistent tamping etc.); and (4) and get tools that can help you see where you're going wrong so you can improve your skills. Basically, cover as many of the four M's as you can.

RyanJE
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Joined: 9 years ago

#18: Post by RyanJE replying to Sideshow »

I'm saying 2 should be before 1.. I think that's more of a given and a fact than opinion. I'll take a $200 grinder and fresh beans over a $3000 grinder and stale (often what can be store bought) coffee any day.

I mean, we do this to enjoy the taste of our coffee not the taste of our grinders, right?
I drink two shots before I drink two shots, then I drink two more....

Sideshow
Posts: 380
Joined: 8 years ago

#19: Post by Sideshow replying to RyanJE »

My initial point was to get a simple bottomless PF to figure out what is going wrong in the first place, which I still stand behind. To finish your logic, you can use the most awesome, tastiest, most amazing coffee in the world, but if the barista is distributing it all on one side of the basket and creating channels in the puck, it won't make a bit of difference. Getting a bottomless PF and using fresh coffee can certainly be done simultaneously.

Each of the things we're mentioning will fail without proper attention paid to the other variables, which is why you want to focus on everything at the same time. And without more info from the OP (and a bottomless PF will help figure out what's going on with the technique), we're just left guessing right?

dilin
Posts: 204
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#20: Post by dilin »

+1 on Sideshow's comment.

I have an EC155 Delonghi which I converted to bottomless, and it has taught me loads about distribution, grind size, sour/bitter balance, temperature influence, etc.