Espresso runs too fast in entry-level machine - Page 2
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You can slow down a pressurized portafilter by up-dosing and tamping with more pressure. It is much easier if you have an actual tamper, and not the plastic stick the machines sometimes come with.
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Not saying that, but starting with a bottomless or even non pressurized pf will show that you need a grinder, the ppf may prevent a need for that....all depends on what the TS is after, I'd say he is best off if he's able to get to the point he can make an espresso that satisfies him with the least investment...that may involve getting another machine and decent grinder but not necessarily so...Sideshow wrote:Ah, so you're saying that you have to use a pressurized with that machine? Well yeah, then you can't use a bottomless, sadly. There will only be so much you can do then to improve the results.
LMWDP #483
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Getting a bottomless still has utility though. Entry level equipment may be able to produce good outputs, but the margin of error will be smaller. A bottomless will still tell you how you're doing, or what you might need to improve. Accordingly, it still has merit.
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But it is not about what we think is better, it's his experiment..
LMWDP #483
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Sideshow wrote:I hear you, but to me it doesn't get any more basic than distribution and tamping technique. That he can control without spending a chunk of change on a new grinder. Perfecting distribution and tamping will maximize any equipment he already has, and without a bottomless PF it'll be extremely difficult to see what exactly is going wrong.
Again, I guess what I'm saying is to ditch the bottomless and preground coffee, but maybe the OP can't do that yet?
It does get more basic, much more, quality coffee is the single largest factor. You can have the best gear in the world but if you use stale pre ground junk, it's gonna taste like.... Stale pre ground junk.
This is why we would be doing the OP a dis-service focusing on basket prep and shot diagnosis... IMHO.
I drink two shots before I drink two shots, then I drink two more....
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I agree that you have to focus on quality coffee, but it can't be that alone. Using quality coffee without developing technique will not work; focusing on technique without using serviceable coffee will not work either.RyanJE wrote:It does get more basic, much more, quality coffee is the single largest factor. You can have the best gear in the world but if you use stale pre ground junk, it's gonna taste like.... Stale pre ground junk.
This is why we would be doing the OP a dis-service focusing on basket prep and shot diagnosis... IMHO.
My advice to the OP: (1) get the best grinder you can afford; (2) use fresh coffee; (3) learn the skills that make for good baristas at any level (distribution, appropriate dosing and grind fineness, consistent tamping etc.); and (4) and get tools that can help you see where you're going wrong so you can improve your skills. Basically, cover as many of the four M's as you can.
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I'm saying 2 should be before 1.. I think that's more of a given and a fact than opinion. I'll take a $200 grinder and fresh beans over a $3000 grinder and stale (often what can be store bought) coffee any day.
I mean, we do this to enjoy the taste of our coffee not the taste of our grinders, right?
I mean, we do this to enjoy the taste of our coffee not the taste of our grinders, right?
I drink two shots before I drink two shots, then I drink two more....
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My initial point was to get a simple bottomless PF to figure out what is going wrong in the first place, which I still stand behind. To finish your logic, you can use the most awesome, tastiest, most amazing coffee in the world, but if the barista is distributing it all on one side of the basket and creating channels in the puck, it won't make a bit of difference. Getting a bottomless PF and using fresh coffee can certainly be done simultaneously.
Each of the things we're mentioning will fail without proper attention paid to the other variables, which is why you want to focus on everything at the same time. And without more info from the OP (and a bottomless PF will help figure out what's going on with the technique), we're just left guessing right?
Each of the things we're mentioning will fail without proper attention paid to the other variables, which is why you want to focus on everything at the same time. And without more info from the OP (and a bottomless PF will help figure out what's going on with the technique), we're just left guessing right?
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+1 on Sideshow's comment.
I have an EC155 Delonghi which I converted to bottomless, and it has taught me loads about distribution, grind size, sour/bitter balance, temperature influence, etc.
I have an EC155 Delonghi which I converted to bottomless, and it has taught me loads about distribution, grind size, sour/bitter balance, temperature influence, etc.