Hi all,

After a period of playing with the Presso, the missus decided to acquire a De'Longhi EC310 Espresso machine to make her own cappuccinos in the morning. As we're both rather new to the world of espresso making, we've been getting rather inconsistent results. As much as I've been reading online, I felt there were some questions that I couldn't really find an answer to, so I decided to post it up here.

In short, we've been getting pretty bland espressos thus far, nothing like what we've tasted at the local roaster's cafe. Simply put, our coffee either lacks flavor or is terribly bitter. We've identified a few factors thus far, and we're wondering what we could possibly change, and in what order we should change them.

We feel that the following factors are within our control:

1) Freshness of beans - frankly, we asked our roaster to grind our beans for us, and it's 3 weeks old now. Roasted on 28 March and sealed in a pack and in the refrigerator. - We plan to obtain new beans tomorrow and only grind them prior to use to see the difference.

2) Grind setting - the roaster previously ground the beans for us at a setting slightly finer than they usually do for espresso, and we've had some issues with the flow at times. Presently, the plan is to grind them a little coarser before use.

3) Tamping - After watching Schomer's 'Techniques of the Barista' I've been using his technique of compression with the finger (albeit with rather weird results - are you meant to compress strongly with the finger? Or just brush lightly? I tried the former and it simply doesn't look right) and tamping lightly before applying 40lbs and 20lbs with a twist. The only problem is that the supplied tamper is attached to the machine and requires me to lift the basket and press up onto it, rather than down. I'm planning to get a proper tamper now, but need to measure the size of the basket first.

4) Dosing - Dosing has been rather inconsistent as well, not going by weight but rather the amount that fits in the basket. Would it really help to dose it according to weight?

5) Pressurized Portafilter - We're definitely getting crema from this, but the espresso has turned out much weaker than my experiences with the Presso. Is there any way to modify this to get rid of it? Or what might be the optimal method to use with this?

6) Timing of the shot - We've tried timing the shot for approximately 23 seconds, but usually experience blonding really early, especially after it takes quite a while for the first drops to appear. Could it be improper tamping? Or is the machine?


Overall our espresso turns out really black and watery rather than the 'reddish-brown/thick like honey/syrupy' descriptions thus far. It's nothing like what we get from the roaster (although they have had years of experience and a syneso...), so we've been hoping to find ways to improve. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

What you describe (black, thin, bitter) is typical of espresso made with preground coffee and a pressurized portafilter. While there was some dispute over the proper placement of the barista in Order of Importance: Coffee, Grinder, Espresso Machine... and Barista?, nobody disputed the critical contributions of fresh coffee and a good grinder. Until these issues are addressed, further diagnosis is pointless.

Point number 1 is your first big issue. Once you get a good grinder to use at home, we can assist with other issues. Freshly ground coffee goes stale in around 30 seconds, which is where you bland flavor profile is probably coming from. You bitter issue could be temperature, could be channeling, could be improper grind (but without a grinder it cannot be diagnosed). The grind and freshness of the beans are paramount. Simply put, you will never get anything usable from pre ground coffee.

RTDCM: http://www.home-barista.com/espresso-guide.html

(points to anyone who knows acronym) - read the damn cadevar manual (mnemonic for brachial plexus)


in Russian we have a saying "Iz govna na zdelat pulyu" - you can't make a bullet from (dung)

+1 on 1.
Stale preground coffee.. NO! No I say. A thousand times no!

You can lasso a bronco with dental floss, but that will be about as productive as trying to get decent espresso with stale, preground coffee.

When you drink an espresso, what is in the cup? Water and coffee. As long as the water tasted good before it went through the coffee, its role in the taste of the beverage is negligible.

Once again, we add yet another data point to GIGO.. see.. I know some acronyms as well.

Thanks for the reply guys,

We picked up some freshly roasted beans today and a Krups GVX2 to give it a (pardon the pun) shot, and will post results once we get a chance to. Hopefully that will be the start of an improvement in our espresso!

guosh wrote:We picked up some freshly roasted beans today and a Krups GVX2...

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but I believe that grinder has the "fake flat burrs" mentioned here.

guosh wrote:We picked .... a Krups GVX2 .... will post results....

I would think that approximately 100% of the folks here would agree that this was not a good choice.
If it is returnable, do not take it out of the package. We could be wrong, but that economy grinder is barely up to the task or grinder for a percolator but not for espresso.

The reviews at coffeegeek http://coffeegeek.com/reviews/grinders/krupsgvx are not encouraging when considered in terms of espresso.

Please ask before purchasing your next coffee equipment. We really can be of assistance.

And, once again, the grinder is more important than the espresso machine.

My father has it, good for pressurized portafilter, fine for filter and french press, but nowhere near real espresso making

No worries! Apologies for not being clear in my earlier post - we merely borrowed the GVX2 from a friend due to convenience - not a purchase! Haven't tried it out yet in any case, but thanks for the words of caution

We were at the local roasters/cafe today and we witnessed what they could do with the same beans we bought. They were using a mazzer grinder (not sure which model though) and a synesso machine, and turned out really different results from what we've been getting. Previously we asked them to grind the beans for us due to our lack of a grinder, but they too admitted that it would be best if we acquired our own.

It's a new hobby for the missus and I, so we're taking it step by step with the investments, trying to read up more before we commit to new equipment, especially with other bills to pay. In any case, what might be a decent grinder for espresso at entry level? With the De'Longhi already purchased, we're not expecting stellar results, but there seems to be a consensus that freshly grounded beans are key, so we'll definitely look into investing in a grinder in the near future.