Attempt at humor with subject heading....

So I loved the previous post regarding how to approach espresso extraction. There's another one on some other blog (think it's God Shot) where he eloquently expresses how he became seduced by the little Marzocco machine and lost sight of extracting the soul of the bean. Posts like these are important - especially in our consumption (as in a consumer purchase) will make me happy society - for such threads help me focus upon why I'm doing this whole dance.

Still, there are times I wonder if I've hit the wall with my current process, and I'd be better served by upgrading some aspect of it. I've been doing this espresso thing for about 10 years, with the last four being serious. I've decided to stake my process around the Black Cat espresso blend, which passes through a Mini Mazzer, a PID'd Silvia, a warmed cup, eventually hitting my tongue after a meditative sniff or two. I've found the Black Cat to be sensitive to the usual factors, and have standardized a decent volume, grind size, tamp pressure, leaving extraction temp and time the remaining variables. It seems there's a modest keyhole of excellence for this blend, with a slightly larger window of acceptability. At best, the blend has a heavy dark chocolate taste - like an over 70% coco bar of quality sh** - and some other more mild tones, which I don't want to take the effort to name, because they're, well, mild.

So I'm wondering if I've maxed this blend, or if a change in equipment would allow a deeper understanding of the blend. If the former, then it's time to explore new horizons (suggestions?), but if it's the latter, well, where would I look to improve my processing equipment? Specifically, do I go nuts and order that $1,300 thing designed by the anal retentive photographer/audiophile/coffee-nut? (funny, same "hobbies" I get anal retentive over....) Or do I say the Mini's good stuff and look to a HX or DB in that range?

To the more knowledgeable in the forum, I can appreciate how the "What do I buy next?" threads could drive you nuts, but I really would love your input, even if it's to say: it's what's behind the handle, dude.

Thanks,

Lee

While there is a point at which ones equipment becomes the limiting factor, not many of us will ever truly hit that point using a modern 'high end' machine. Many people start with a Silvia and upgrade in a year or two, others are perfectly happy with them for many years. Most that end up retaining the Silvia are shot only folks as the shot to steam transition is a bit lacking (but I have never owned a Silvia). What you get with a bigger machine is better thermal stability, better steaming and seemingly more forgiving extractions. The down side of a larger forgiveness factor is you start too lax and get sloppy in your technique.

I think the GS3 is a prime example of the upgrade fever syndrome. I would love to have one, but I have to ask myself 'will I get a $5K better tasting shot with the upgrade?' Some find the machine to be the best thing since the introduction of the E61 and others that think it is good, but not as good as the hype. Not having used one, I have no opinion other than I would still like to have one.

As far as $1300, that is defiantly not in the 'going nuts' category. Your typical prosumer machine will hit you in the 1300-1600 range. Popular belief is that the jump in shot quality between a Silvia to E61 is more dramatic than the change between E61 to bigger E61, or other machine. Now a La Cimbali Jr, Elektra A3 or La Marzocco GS3 would be in that 'going nuts' 2500-4500 range, baring the off the scale multi group commercial machine in the kitchen.

Now having said that, I have one of those off the scale multi group machines in my kitchen. I would trade it for any of the above three single group machines.

Thanks, CF.

That's part of my upgrade anxiety: will I regret not shelling out for the GS3 in a few years? Your comment suggests no, if, that is, I stay focused upon the coffee.

Per the $1,300 going nuts comment, however, I was referring to the Versalab grinder; in other words, would I notice a larger impact upon my extraction process by going to an extraordinary grinder, or making the move to HX?

Lee

Your Mazzer Mini is more than adequate. Based on comments from someone I know that has had one for a couple of years, I would not trade my Mazzer or Cimbali for the Versalab grinder.

As to the GS3, would it make a better shot than the Silvia, yes, will it make a $3500 better shot, that is disputable. A nice reality check is Dan's One week with the LaMarzocco GS3.

I ended up getting an e61 HX machine. Will look forward to more stable shots, along with a little training from Ms. Perry.

Thanks for the input.

Lee

Lee,

Please let us know which machine you decided on and what won you over from its competition.

As a present Silvia owner contemplating the same issue I would greatly appreciate a follow up from you. What were your first impressions? How long did it take for you to achieve a satisfactory pull on a new type of machine? Did you reach a level of taste that was beyond what the Silvia could provide?

I assume you used the Silvia before the PID was installed. Did you see a bump in shot quality that was greater or lesser than the change from single boiler to HX? Let me re-phrase that. On a scale of 1-10, rate the improvement of a PID Silvia over stock. Then rate the shot quality improvement from Silvia PID to e61 Hx.

You probably see where I'm headed. I'm facing the, "do I spend the $320+, including shipping, to have my 4 year old Silvia serviced and add a PID? OR. Sell her on eBay and spend the extra money for an HX." Personally, I make about 50/50 - double shots and Americano's , 2-3 times a day(local roaster - Supreme Bean) and maybe 2 lattes a month.

After years of temperature surfing, the HX cooling flush doesn't seem any more involved. The only downside I see is how much counter space these bad boys take up and how the missus isn't going to like that. The Mazzer grinder already elicited a groan.

Thanks in advance,
Ed

I'm just about a year into serious espresso and recently went from a non mod'd Silvia to a good e61 HX. I did have thermocouples on the top of the Silvia's boiler and on the grouphead to get better temp feedback for warming up and surfing. The good shots with the Silvia were pretty good but I had a problem with consistency.

After upgrading the shot consistency went way up. Almost all double shots are good to very good shots compared to the Silvia. One thing I have noticed, though, is that the best Silvia shots seemed to have more clarity and depth than the HX shots. The HX shots are consistently much better but blurred and muddier. Maybe it's me and the temp I'm pulling at or the pump pressure. Or are shots with an e61 HX generally blurred compared to other machines?

Ed,

I went with the Vibiemme Domobar Super Manual, Stainless Steel version. It struck me - based upon reviews & features - to be a respectable player in the sub $1,800 set of HX models. Check out Coffee Geek for a decent review of the machine.

It just came today and I have only pulled two shots. Initial impressions are:

- It's a monster (in size). Especially compared to the Silvia. If you go with this machine, make sure you have the counter space.
- It's beautiful.

I'll report back in a few days, after I've been able to acclimate to the machine.

Per my Silvia experience: yes, I did buy it stock. The thermostat failed after two years of daily use (temp surfed - though I wasn't exactly sure why, other than my shots tasted better). When I obtained the schematic, I couldn't believe how stupid the thermal system was; HUGE thermal pass band, which is insanely unacceptable given what I had learned about espresso. The PID mod just made so much sense, there was no other choice, and I was quite satisfied with the results for a long time. It will be interesting to see what type of improvement I'll be able to achieve with this new machine.

BTW, if Supreme Bean is local to you, then we're basically neighbors. When I get this thing up, you can come over and check it out for yourself.

Lee

Lee,

That looks like a beautiful machine, many happy years of use! Monster indeed, the 21" depth that would leave me just enough room to set a cup in front of it! Do you have it directly plumbed?

What machines were on your short list?

Are you having your Black Cat shipped in from Chicago? I've been meaning to purchase some once I decide which way to go with my machine. If you haven't given them a try lately, Supreme Bean has a new tasty Espresso roast called Dolce Terra Organic.

Ed