drgary wrote:Hi Curtis, [snip]
give it more time before you conclude that pods are comparable to fresh ground, specialty coffee.

I'm looking forward to it!

Just one important correction: I never said that pods were comparable to fresh ground, specialty coffee. In fact, I tried hard to point that out. All I was trying to says is that not all pods produce crap and that pods can play a role in the spectrum of espresso.

pizzaman383 wrote:pods can play a role in the spectrum of espresso.

Not if one is looking for exceptional espresso which happens to be tag line of this site.

pizzaman383 wrote:I'm looking forward to it!

Just one important correction: I never said that pods were comparable to fresh ground, specialty coffee. In fact, I tried hard to point that out. All I was trying to says is that not all pods produce crap and that pods can play a role in the spectrum of espresso.

My thread search and response can be cursory when on this "smart" iPhone, so I didn't mean to negate that. My main point is you haven't yet climbed the curve of how good it can get. I'm finding so much discernible taste improvement by fine-tuning all the variables. I hope this becomes a real enjoyment for you. And true, sometimes drinkable coffee is welcome, but is it comparable? (No!) The other day I was pressed for time. There's a place on my block that pulls Illy shots on properly adjusted gear. It tasted like coffee, didn't offend my palate, gave me a caffeine boost, and that was all I expected, the art of mass produced coffee, kind of like a burger at MacDonald's.

drgary wrote:My main point is you haven't yet climbed the curve of how good it can get. I'm finding so much discernible taste improvement by fine-tuning all the variables. I hope this becomes a real enjoyment for you.

I've had a glimpse into that and I think I'm in for a good ride. The two-day-old Vivace Vita Decaf came in thick plastic bags with a one-way valve. They were really puffed out and firm; they seemed ballooned with gas much like potato chip bags. I squeezed the bag and the gas coming out smelled different than anything I've every associated with coffee; more raw smelling. The shots I pulled had some of that taste mixed with other tastes. It will be interesting to taste the differences each day as it ages.

I also ordered decaf espresso from five other roasters (I am sensitive enough to caffeine that I have to really limit my intake). I'll get a chance to see how different each blend is early in the game so that I can get an idea of what I prefer and taste some of the range of what's available. I'm really excited!

As I said in one of my earlier posts, I had horrible luck with my Baratza Virtuoso making espresso. I was pleasantly surprised how quickly I was able to be successful making decent shots with the Doge grinder. I think the many hours reading H-B has really helped. Also, everybody's statements that "it's the grinder, baby" are right on. This quick win either bodes very well or it is beginner's luck and I'm in for a phase of disillusionment ahead.

pizzaman383 wrote:This quick win either bodes very well or it is beginner's luck and I'm in for a phase of disillusionment ahead.

Enjoy it, any coffee tastes wonderful during honeymoon period which immediately follows new equipment acquisition

I thought that I'd post a followup after several months of using fresh ground coffee.

I have become fairly consistent with my espresso using the Vibiemme and Fiorenzato grinder. I've got to agree with the prior posts that espresso from fresh beans and a real espresso grinder is worlds above what comes out when using ESE pods. As some said, the best pod espresso has to offer is at the very low end of the range of well prepared espresso from ground fresh beans. And the crema from pods is a thin, pale impostor to what comes from fresh beans.

I still hold to my opinion that the efforts I made using pods really helped me master the grinder very quickly. I'd seen all the concepts and just had to learn how to adjust the grind and dose. I still find espresso from my favorite pods to be better than espresso from some of the beans I've bought (regardless of the dose and grind). I've also found that the pods purchased at different times are amazingly consistent compared to different batches of the same espresso roaster. Pod espresso can also be better than what comes from improperly dosed/ground espresso.

I can also strongly reiterate that "it's the grinder, stupid". My Vibiemme was out of commission for about a month and I went back to using my *bucks barista espresso machine. I was amazed at the quality and taste of the espresso that came out! It's not as good looking, consistent, or nice to work with but it sure was able to make very nice espresso. If I'd bought a good grinder years ago instead of using pods, I would have been way ahead. I'm strongly convinced that buying a basic espresso machine and a high-end grinder is the most cost-effective combination and the fastest way up the learning curve.

Start out with a straw man (people who call pods evil) and folks will reassure you that you are OK, or think, yah, EVIL. I don't know about pizza (now, you want to talk evil? how about another hunk of sausage?) but I'd compare this thread to some decaf discussions. IMO, a late night decaf cappa is sometimes better than no coffee at all. Also, when the stars align, a well-prepared decaf can be pretty nice straight. But it's safest to see the two (caf and decaf) as products as distinct as "table wine" and "premium vintage." So send along a box of red when you deliver the pie.

It's a good point about whether pods can have a role in learning about espresso. The key question for newbies is not so much whether you can produce great coffee, but whether you can taste it. If a high percentage of your consumption comes from pods, there's that much less tasting experience you are getting from optimal coffee that most of this site jabbers on about