Elusive coffee tastes - ready to give up! - Page 2

#11: Post by **boar_d_laze** » May 15th, 2014, 1:37 pm

There are only two types of coffee descriptions, yours and theirs. If theirs aren't like yours, screw 'em. That doesn't mean theirs are wrong, but screw 'em anyway.

Rich

#12: Post by **Spitz.me** » May 15th, 2014, 1:50 pm

The best thing you can learn about flavour descriptors is that they'll give you a very good indication of whether you'll like the coffee or not.

Let me explain.

If you try a coffee and don't like it, then you can read the descriptors and make a mental note that a coffee that tastes like x, y and z is probably not for you and vice versa.

I did this with wine initially. I know which taste descriptors I need to look for in an Australian Shiraz or Cab to love it, basically.

In coffee I love to get espresso blends that are heavy on sweetness and chocolate. I feel very confident that I'll like a coffee when I see tastes that include almonds, hazelnuts, chocolate, vanilla, maple, etc. That sort of thing. Blueberries are about the only fruit I love to read. The rest I'll leave, especially apple since I can barely taste the 'apple' in a coffee ever.

I once had a pour over of a coffee that had descriptors including brown sugar and caramel and all I could taste was tomatoe juice. Sure, when I told the barista he was probably thinking, 'This guy doesn't have a clue.' But, I know what I was tasting. The drink was terrible. So, it's not a perfect system!

#13: Post by **another_jim** » May 15th, 2014, 2:28 pm

con_fused wrote:all these descriptions regarding different tastes to expect - has become a source of bewilderment and frustration. The promises of fruits, berries, chocolates, caramels, apples, etc is as elusive to me today as it was over 3 years ago when I started this expensive obsession.

Are there coffees you truly enjoy, that made all this worthwhile? If no, stop. If yes, know there are two parts to expert tasting:

Everybody can taste. Few can vividly describe what they taste. Those who can't can bitch and moan about the tyranny of tasting notes, or alternatively they can practice, practice, practice. But that practice is not in tasting what others taste, but in describing what you taste. It is practice in arrogance, performance, acting and posing -- you are conveying your own ideas as forcefully as you can. Once you get used to doing that, and only then, should you start worrying about the consistency and accuracy of what you are spouting. Once you are facile in describing tastes, you do exercises like cupping and describing the same set of unknown coffees several times in a row, and check how consistent you are in your descriptions. Once you regularly describe the same unknown coffee the same way on different occasions; your descriptions become reliable for others, whether they taste the same things or not.
Everybody can taste. Few can discriminate what they are tasting. Knowing that the cup in front of you is a Brazil or an Ethiopian is totally different from describing how it tastes; it is taste discrimination. Being able to discriminate is the basis of professional cupping -- of picking coffees that are exemplary. You learn this by getting know one area at a time. Pick a variety or area you love, and spend time tasting every example you can lay your hands on. You will then always be able to pick that origin out of a crowd, and tell which coffees of that origin are great and which are merely so-so.

#14: Post by **entropyembrace** » May 15th, 2014, 2:48 pm

Coffee is never going to taste like a bowl of cherries, blueberries, grapefruit, and green grapes, and it's not going to taste like it was flavored with extracts of those things either. When the roaster writes tasting notes for their coffee they're not saying "it literally tastes like a bowl full of all these things!" He's saying it tastes like coffee with variations that remind him of those things. Or that the coffee has flavour components in common with those things which make it unique from other coffees.

I think a lot of people get confused about what to expect from the tasting notes and expect too much when tasting the coffee for themselves.

#15: Post by **Intrepid510** » May 15th, 2014, 4:11 pm

Describe to me that best coffee you have ever had.

At least for me to be able to taste 'things' in my cup I have to really sit there and think about it. Very rarely is it, clear cut. Most of time things are just 'citrus' 'carmel' 'chocolate' and not even completely apparent on first sip. It's those second and third sips that linger, you have to really think about.

The 'god' shots and cups to me are the ones where it's apparent to anyone with tastebuds that this taste like xyz. If the pros can't do it on a consistent basis, don't feel so bad.

#16: Post by **Armand** » May 15th, 2014, 6:00 pm

coffee: it wakes you up in the morning, keeps your mind fit and alert during the day, it protects your brain against dementia, your colon against cancer and your skin against uv (you're in Sydney so that's reason enough...), you can either drink something horrible (and you must know there are many of those around) or a coffee you like or at least can drink without being revolted

#17: Post by **drgary** » May 15th, 2014, 8:41 pm

I know an experienced coffee professional who had never tasted coffee that had a strong blueberry flavor. I had an Ethiopian coffee that had that strong note. We brewed it and he was able to distinctly taste it. It tasted like coffee with some blueberry flavoring that was unmistakable. The first time this possibility hit me was when I visited Seattle a few years ago, went to Zoka and had a shot that tasted like coffee ... until two minutes later the strongest flavor of lilac appeared for less than a minute. It was remarkable and could not be missed. Others tasting this cup tasted it also.

I am not a supertaster but my tastebuds work. When describing a coffee I'm usually searching for words to describe the first tastes and very often the lingering aftertaste. The flavor notes of a fine coffee well prepared morph over time as the coffee cools and then I'm able to name more notes.

I appreciate one of the comments above that if flavor notes are hard to name, seek out coffees like the ones you have liked the most and enjoy them. If you've put that much effort into trying to learn I expect you can tell smooth from harsh, sour from bitter, intense from weak, clear from muddy, rounded and balanced or otherwise.

#18: Post by **BenKeith** » May 15th, 2014, 9:46 pm

Only three years, I've been roasting my own for 15. I've tried the so called cupping methods, brewed every way under the sun, and unknown how many espresso, and after all this I've become a pro at being able to tell if it taste ok or I don't like it. Acid, sour, earthy/grassy, baked and roasted darker or lighter than I care for is still about the only thing I can tell about the taste.

I read Toms cupping reports from Sweet Marie's and have always wondered if he's using the same beans I'm buying because I've never tasted 90% of all those screwball flavors he describes.

However, I guess I should say I've never tasted a cup of coffee I liked without sugar and milk in it either, and can't stand it once it has cooled some. My family says I have an asbestos mouth, because I want it hot and pour it out when most say it's just got cool enough to drink.

#19: Post by **OldmatefromOZ** » May 15th, 2014, 9:55 pm

I think most or a lot of the time, the notes supplied with green beans or roasted are just repeated from when the coffee was originally cupped by industry professionals / importers ect, like what anotherjim does / explained. So a standard quick cupping roast verses the variables of home roasting / brewing and expecting these attributes to transfer to a shot of espresso can change what one is going to taste before they have even seen the shot, let alone given it a good sniff.

If I am out trying a cafe offering I try not to read anything except the origin, then immerse myself in the experience of smell and taste, have a little think about what I have tasted then go and read things if need be.

I just search for a balanced shot, (rare) where sweetness, acidity, bitterness and body are all singing in harmony. If I can pick up something like winey or fruity acidity, vanilla / nuts / caramel / chocolate so be it. Mostly, when I get a really well balanced shot at home or out I just ENJOY it for what it is.

I hope you find your mojo.

#20: Post by **Travisimo** » May 15th, 2014, 10:40 pm

Once I started tasting coffees from many different roasters and found that I liked a certain spectrum of them, I could sometimes make out some of the notes and flavor essences they advertised or printed on the bag.

Q: Could you be brewing or over/under extracting as is and maybe the sour or bitter is overpowering your sense of taste and enjoyment?

Suggestions:
1) Order direct from a roaster to get freshest possible roasted beans and use within two weeks.
2) Try brew or espresso as is first to determine preference.
3) Next try with milk and sugar to taste.

For example, with Toscano from CC, it works well as is. Yet I feel the flavors are more pronounced of chocolate and caramel especially if you add milk as in a latte, and even 1 tsp of sugar if so desired. This is a very sweet Dolce Italian espresso roast.

Note: I prefer espresso as is...yet for alot of roasts I believe it is described and tailored for milk-based drinks or latte/cappuccino profiles..hence you taste it for sure with a bit of steamed milk and 1 tsp of sugar.

One time I had Blue Bottle's Roman Espresso and you could smell a note of blueberry smell and even taste blueberry essence as a latte with milk and sugar.

Then for a pricey Geisha coffee (Medium light roast), I had pineapple and jasmine like tastes even with milk and sugar also added.

Then for a Ethiopian Kilenso I could taste a thick cream and I kid you not, a strawberry-like essence of actual flavor especially with marginal milk and sugar.

Hope this helps may shed some light on a very subjective and fun aspect of specialty coffees.