Hi guys,

I took a short clip of a low dosed double, only 13g which I found out after setting up everything, so I couldn't really change the setting and recorded that:

http://www.vimeo.com/5236332

[sorry can't really embed it as it's HD - forgot to change the setting on the camera]

Not mind blowing but way better than what I used to get:



Regards,
dsc.

The stock Elektra jet is 0.9.

Hi guys,

the valve is here and installed on the supply line (the one coming from the pump to the machine):



Set to 85ml/10s.

Will update after a few shots with some thoughts. All I can say now is that it takes around 5s to reach full pressure, so it's a bit like having inline preinfusion (a bit like e61).

Regards,
dsc.

Hi again,

a bit more info on the flow control. Having lowered the volume to around 85ml/10s I've discovered that it takes quite a while to get upto 8.8bar during an extraction. This means that for a few seconds the puck is exposed to around 5-6bar which isn't awesome. The extraction starts slow, but goes a bit sideways near the end, something I didn't have with the lower flow values. The taste isn't bad, but it's a bit different, a bit more sweet, although if you try to pull it too long you will get more harsh elements.

Today I will try to remove the gicleur completely from the group and use just the needle valve to control the flow. This should leave me with a faster ramp up but lower flow.

Regards,
dsc.

Hi guys,

another update, I've removed the gicleur from the group and now only use the needle valve to control flow. The effect is a sweeter cup, the strange smell that I used to get straight after the extraction (when putting my nose into the cup) disappeared (not sure why) and it looks like the shots are blonding a bit later then usual. Pressure-wise it's a slower ramp up from 1 bar to 9bar within around 3-4s. The reason behind is the larger capacity of the part behind the needle valve and no restriction on the group. When turning on the pump the pressure goes down to 1bar and slowly rises as more water goes through the needle valve. Not sure how it looks like on the group as I still haven't connected my PT there, this is all measured at the 4way junction of the machine.

Regards,
dsc.

Tom,

It has been two weeks.....any other thoughts about the needle valve and removing the jet? I am very interested because I think I am going to do the same thing to my machine. My flow rate is a bit high (not the jet engine you had going on) and it makes it a little less forgiving on my technique...which is still a bit raw. And, of course, I am curious to see if it would change what I am tasting in the cup. The latter has been quite good lately but ti could always be better I guess.

-David

Hi David,

I'd say if you can get a hold of a needle valve fairly cheaply (they can be quite expensive) do try it. If not you can always get a similar result with a smaller jet, or by sticking a very thin wire (0.1mm or so) inside the existing jet to make it a bit smaller. In my case 80ml was not bad but I had some problems with extractions and the pressure ramp up was a bit too slow in my opinion (I think this was causing problems). I turned it up to 110ml and it's a bit better now, taste-wise as well.

It's hard to tell if it's something you can't live without as I recently changed my filter and that was the mine cause of taste change. I now get some flavours I could only dream of before, but I will experiment with the needle valve some more when I get the pressure transducer hooked up straight to the group. I also ordered a pair of ruby jets from Synesso and I'm curious how that is going to work.

Regards,
dsc.

Hi everyone,

after around two weeks of using the Synesso ruby jet I switched back to the Kehin jet as I was having problems with channeling. WIth the ruby jet in place the pressure ramp up is much slower and it acts a bit like preinfusion which in my opinion is worse then having a very fast ramp up. After the switch I was pretty sure I won't have any more problems, but the shots are still coming out bad, watery, thin, low bodied, loads of channeling going on (even though I use WDT), 'blond twisters' and stuff like that. To be honest I have no idea what's going on, my shots are nowhere close look-wise to the ones seen on videos done by Dave and they taste like sh*t. I'm not using any preinfusion, I'm not using the needle valve that was added a while ago, only thing different from an original Elektra is the size of the jet. Main suspects are:

- water distribution on the group

- grinder

especially the latter as I had to switch to a rather fine grind recently for no apparent reason. I thought it was the ruby jet, but even after switching back to the Kehin jet I'm still working quite close to the zero setting.

Regards,
dsc.

I am not doing anything fancy. I have the smaller jet installed in my machine, plumbed in with 2 bars of mains pressure. I have a run of the mill carbon filter on the half inch supply line. 128psi on the brew pressure measured with a ScaceII.

The only observation I can make is that the Elektra brand is very sensitive to dose. What you are describing sounds like what I get when I go over 15 grams in a double, and I use a LM ridgeless which holds just a little more coffee than the stock basket, I usually run more in the 14-14.5 gram range. I use a Reg Barber tamper, the sides of the tamper should not be above the rim of the basket. My dose, the top of the tamper sides are just below the rim of the basket. I grind fine and use a very light tamp. I hold the ball of the tamper with two fingers and just give it a gentle press to level it out. Probably not more than 15 pounds of pressure. I also noticed that if I tamp hard, the machine complains by giving me a bad shot.

Be gentle, low dose, fine grind, very light tamp just to level and lightly pack the puck. I run just below one bar on the boiler. A 4 second post flash boil with a 6 second recovery puts me right on 200F with about half a degree of temperature climb over the entire shot and most of that is right at the end. The A3 actually gets hotter as the shot progresses but is pancake flat for about the first 20 seconds.

Hi Dave,

thanks for the tips. This time it turned out to be the coffee, so I switched the blend to something fresh and it's a bit better now. I'm surprised how much channeling I get though, compared to your videos it's not looking good:



Since this shot I've changed the grinder setting to something a bit coarser and it's slightly better.

Regards,
dsc.

Hi guys,

I'm afraid there's something wrong with at least one piece of the espresso equation at my house and I simply can't believe it's so damn hard to get a proper shot with this kind of setup. The usual suspect is the grinder, so I got my Macap MC4 out and tried it to see how the extractions look/taste compared to the Major:

- here's a shot from my Macap

http://www.flickr.com/photos/tompjagiello/3847723847/

- and here's a shot from my Major

http://www.flickr.com/photos/tompjagiello/3847737881/

Taste wise the Macap was a bit more spicy and the Major was a bit sweeter. Both shots not too bad, but nothing to write home about. Bitterness on a reasonable level, medium body, good sweet/acidic/sour balance. Of course the extraction from Major was off due to uneven distribution.

Because the shot from the Major was a bit too fast I switched to a slightly finer grinder setting and screwed up my distribution again as I got this:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/tompjagiello/3847751033/

Too bitter, but still not awful considering the look. Then again I had like 6-7 double espressos now, so I might be talking rubbish.

I'm using a fresh blend, 5 days old Perfetio blend from my local roaster and I'm sure there's nothing wrong with the bean. The pressure on the pump is 8.5bar, I'm using the smaller Kehin gicleur, no needle valve, no preinfusion. Dose is 14.5g in the original ridged basket, temperature around 91*C, tried lower but it was too acidic.

As I wrote before, my first suspect was the grinder, but I get similar channeling with the Macap as well, so I think it's not it. It's true that the shots from the Macap look a bit more even, but taste wise it is similar. I will try to test the grinder with a different machine and see what this test shows. One thing that's a bit odd with the Major is that the shot can start fast but slows down a few seconds earlier. For example it beads evenly, rather fast but then stops and the whole thing drips for quite a long while before forming a single stream. With the Macap the transition between beading and stream is faster and there's no slow down.

Another suspect would be my pump inline pressure which I agree is probably too low, only 1bar. Other things I can think of would be water distribution at the group (I'm planning to switch to an LM type of distribution simply to check how that works) and/or water line going from the pump to the machine which is only 10mm OD. I know Dave uses 1/2" and I think he mentioned he had problems with lower diameter and/or low pressure on the supply line in his review thread.

Of course I might be missing the obvious cause of my problems - me, although I try to do as little as possible when preparing the shot. I dose straight from the funnel into the basket, do a light tamp, a slight twist with no pressure to clean the base of the tamper from coffee grounds and lock. Perhaps my distribution is off?

Regards,
dsc.

I run a half inch to the primary regulator, then to a splitter that feeds two more regulators under the espresso bar. One goes to a 3/8 line another regulator to fine tune the pressure then 3/8 to the machine. The other leg goes to another regulator, then to two 1/4 inch lines one of which goes to the plumbed in drip pot and the other is spare. I run 2 bar mains on the machine.

Wish you weren't on the other side of the ocean. If you were within a hundred miles I would drive over and lend a hand. The equipment is more than adequate, not sure where the problem is coming from.

dsc wrote:Another suspect would be my pump inline pressure which I agree is probably too low, only 1bar. Other things I can think of would be water distribution at the group (I'm planning to switch to an LM type of distribution simply to check how that works) and/or water line going from the pump to the machine which is only 10mm OD. I know Dave uses 1/2" and I think he mentioned he had problems with lower diameter and/or low pressure on the supply line in his review thread.

Regards,
dsc.

In any of your videos I do not hear any sign of your pump pulling a negitive pressure. Remember for a rotary pump a solid steady input pressure is better than a low pressure setup. If you feel that your inlet line is stable then your head pressure will be stable.

Any steady pressure from suction to a large positive pressure will work for a rotary pump, as long as it is stable. But a large swing on the inlet will make a large swing on the outlet. There is no buffer there.

Hi guys,

Dave thanks for the offer, unfortunately I haven't got enough money to sponsor over-the-ocean flights:)

The water pressure on the suction side is positive and as far as I'm aware there are no large swings (at least not when I'm brewing espresso). I agree it's on the low side, but it's there all the time.

I switched to a Synesso triple basket and things got a bit better, quite steady flows, no major channeling. Perhaps I was trying make the coffee work instead of working with it? Anyways I've ran out of this blend and now I'm brewing a Cuba Supreme SO. I've also switched to a ridgeless double basket and I'm curious how that is going to work. The only problem with it is that it doesn't want to lock easily and I'm a bit worried I will crack the wooden handle when forcing it. On top of that Elektra's gaskets aren't standard and so there's no easy solution to this problem.

Regards,
dsc.

Hi guys,

I'm back and having changed the coffee and the basket brought some interesting conclusions. Here's the original ridged double:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/tompjagiello/3856564521/

and the ridgeless:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/tompjagiello/3856588335/

Looks better, but I'm not really concerned with it as I was trying to focus on the taste which was better from the ridgeless. Currently the dose is very low (13g) and to be honest I preferred the shots from a slightly higher dose which means I will have to switch to the triple basket as the coffee puck is quite high even with lower doses. The bad news is that I'm already half way through the bag:|

Regards,
dsc.

You're topping out your ridgeless double at 13g?

Wow.

Agree...you sure you are weighing correctly.

At 13g, my ridgeless doubles after tamping are about 1/2" from the top. My Espro tamper base is completely in the basket...and it is a thick base.

Hi guys,

sorry for the confusion, 13g is actually quite normal in the ridgeless, the whole tamper base fits inside and leaves around 2-3mm of space between the top of the base and the rim of the basket. Previously I was brewing with 15g and I was getting a screen imprint on the puck, so I thought that moving to a triple might be a good idea.

Regards,
dsc.

Bet the triple will make things worse. If it's anything like the Semi, the more coffee in the basket, the worse the shot. The Semi shines with a single basket, (even an overfilled one) and isn't quite as good with the double. I think this is an across board issue with Elektras.