Greetings,

Recently I purchased Eric Svedsons' E-61 group thermometer, and It is installed on my QM Anita. Easy install, and so far, I like this things capabilities. I can see how, with this 'upgrade', a HX machine can be a piece of cake to operate.

But heres the question I have..

Ive changed my P-stat from 1.3max, to 1.1max, to allow a longer rebound time/larger window of error. But, with either of these settings, I can get a consistent shot, at whatever temp I like, give or take 1*F or so. Using the flush/pause/go, as opposed to Erics method of flushing way down to 184 and waiting, or the "pro method" of a quick flush and pull right away. I found the flush, wait say 15-40 seconds, go to be the best. In case I am being unclear, Im using the Method outlined in the HX Love article. I dont like to have to rush my dosing/tamping by using the looong flush, and i cant be consistent with the "pro method". BUT, its the subsequent shot I am having trouble with.

Often times I will walk up to an idle machine, and want to stay there for alittle while, pulling shots at different temps, experimenting with ristretto/lungo's, and I even like to give the triple basket a go, now and then. But, given the readings of the thermometer, I have a hard time being consistent with shots, say, 2, 3 and 4. Do I do a small flush and go right away, or no flush at all? What should the therm be reading? Should I even put the P-stat back up to 1.3? Higher even? I just can be consistent. I can sometimes get a good 2nd or 3rd shot, but not consistently, as it was just by luck, or timing perhaps.

So, I thought maybe we could all compare our machines vitals and our resulting flush methods/therm readouts, and how the subsequent shots get pulled, nailing a good temp like the 1st shot. Would anyone be interested in this? I feel it would not only help me, but other people who are new to using a thermometer on the E-61. Now, I know elevation affects things, and ours machines gauges arent the best, but even with the variables, we could still put together a guideline of methods, as its all relative anyway, and could, at the very least, provide a model from which to go on, changing it at your our whim, instead of walking blindly at it. I did thoroughly read through the FAQs for the threads on this topic, and definitely found a lot of good information, but found it confusing at times, and somewhat hard to find what I was looking for, which is why I came up with this idea. Hope you guys find it as good as an idea as I did

So, maybe it could go something like this...

Vitals:
Machine- QM Anita, vibe pump. (if you are using a rotary pump, state that, as flushing changes with the pumps)
Pressure stat- 1.1, Max Reading
Brew pressure- 10BAR, Max Reading
Group therm after 1HR+ idle- 214.0F

Method: Approach machine, and pull a short flush, about 3-4oz, to get water flowing/pump going/group fully warmed. Wiegh beans, grind, dose, distribute w/ WDT, level, tamp. Flush group until thermometer reads 207, or 5mississippi's at the end of the water dance. Wait 20 seconds, pull shot. shot duration 25-30seconds, group therm reading starts at 201, and is at 199 at the end.
**This is for a cooler temp, as the blend im working with just tastes better on the cooler end. For a hotter temp, I would flush to 208, or 4mississippi's, and wait 20 seconds, pull shot. This gives me a group reading of as high as 204 at the start, and usually lands at 202/1 at the end of the shot.**

Depending on how the machine is acting on day X, to adjust the temp, I do prefer to flush the same amount and change the wait time. Sometimes that doesnt give me a low/high enough temp, in which case I will add/subtract a second or two from the flush.

I find this method to be wildly consistent for the first shot from a long idle.

Subsequent shot method: Pray, and hope for the best. Clearly this is where I need some guidance. My main problem, is if I wait, say, 4-5 minutes, and just use the same method stated above, my therm either spikes up even as high as 210, then drops throughout the whole shot, sometimes ending at 199. Weird. I KNOW I have a machine more then capable of pulling back to back shots, I just cant seem to find my groove. It hasnt been too frustrating tho.. I have been enjoying experimenting, but there comes a time when you just want to pull some shots and be able to not worry about temp, yet worry about other variables, like shot volumes and dosing.

So, lets have it espresso geeks, how do you guys do it?

Hmm.. interesting

Well, for the record, Ive been using the backflush technique, and honestly, for me, its the easiest way to dial in a temp that I want, and it gives the steadiest temp throughout the shot. This is based only on the readings from Eric's group therm, but if anyone wants to loan me a scace, Ill gladly test it for everyone

JmanEspresso wrote:Hmm.. interesting Well, for the record, Ive been using the backflush technique, <snip>

Backflush technique?

See this: http://www.home-barista.com/tips/...g-flush-t2547.html

http://www.home-barista.com/tips/need-hints-on-using-e61-thermocouple-adapter-t5125.html

Try that as well.

Basically, I wasnt having trouble using a bunch of different flushing techniques, to get a stable temp on my first shot. Now,I THOUGHT, before I got the group therm, that my subsequent shots were also at a stable temp, by using the same method outlined in the HX Love article on this site. Average of 5 mins between shots for cleaning cups/group head, enjoying the shot, etc etc.. But, when I used this method once I got the therm installed, I realized, my first shot was spot on, but shots 2,3 and 4 were all over the place, sometimes ending way below the accepted range of water temps.

So I began reading..and reading..and reading some more. I tried a few methods and a few different P-stat settings, and I found this..

P-Stat- Max reading of 1.1 when the heater shuts off.

So, from an idle machine(45mins+), what I do is this. First, Ill do a 2-4oz flush to get rid just of the flash boiling water. At this point, the water is still too hot to brew, and the group is very hot as well. Then, using a blind basket, Ill do anywhere from 2-4 backflushes, depending on what temp Im looking for. I dont let them last more then ten seconds after the pre-infusion, and then I watch the temp to see what I want for my shot. Its roughly 4° higher then what it is at the puck, so I go from there. Once the therm reads the temp I want, I drop the lever, remove the PF with my blind basket, and load my naked pf which is tamped and ready to go. Now, from when I dropped the lever, I found I have about 20 seconds to pull the shot and still have a good temp. Based ONLY on the group therm, it seems to be like the slant L temp curve. For subsequent shots, unless its within one or two minutes, Ill need to do maybe one more backflush, but, its much shorter then the one I do from an Idle machine.

This has worked best for me, with my preparation, and my speed. And, I rarely just pull one shot when im at the machine. At the VERY least, when I approach Anita, I pull 3 shots.. but,.. if its around lunchtime, or sometime in the afternoon..there is times when Ill hang out and pull maybe even 10 shots, just experimenting, trying things, changing things.. you know how it is!

So..thats how I do it. how about you?