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Drippy extractions - Page 3

Postby another_jim on Mon Nov 23, 2009 6:11 pm

The video site is private and requires registration and log in.
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Postby Stuggi on Mon Nov 23, 2009 6:53 pm

Eh, nope, it's just that he has put the first video as private for some reason. :/ The second video works just fine if you click it. :)
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Postby dsc on Mon Nov 23, 2009 7:26 pm

Hi guys,

sorry for the mess up, it's just that Vimeo is currently a bit sh*t. I've modified the original post and added a link to Flickr as well

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Postby shadowfax on Mon Nov 23, 2009 7:35 pm

Have you ever had the opportunity to borrow a 'guest' grinder of high caliber? There are so many geeks in the UK, surely you could find someone with a grinder of known high-performance (or take yours to someone else's place) to compare. That's an easy way to make sure things aren't off on your grinder and isolate the machine (or something you're doing, maybe) as the problem
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Postby malachi on Mon Nov 23, 2009 8:29 pm

dsc wrote:Can't blame you here, but everything I do is very simple, dose into the basket straight from the grinder like this:

http://vimeo.com/5770856

than a small downward knock on the counter and a light tamp with a force-less twist to remove grounds from the piston. Afterwards a flush to cool down the machine, lock and engage pump. I've tried fiddling with a needle, but first of all there's hardly any clumps and second it doesn't change anything anyway.


So are you saying that you don't do any distribution at all?
That you grind into the portafilter and then do a single light tamp?

ps. and out of curiosity, what's with all the orange notes on your grinder?
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Postby danetrainer on Mon Nov 23, 2009 9:43 pm

My question is are you putting only enough beans in the Major for a dose or two? Especially on these titan grinders the ratio of coarse to fines goes haywire when there is not enough weight (or too much as pointed out by Ian in "A Tamper is Too Heavy for Grinder Anti-Popcorn Remedy). I experienced a marked improvement when I added a weight to my two-shots worth of beans in the grinder.
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Postby dsc on Tue Nov 24, 2009 9:02 am

Hi guys,

I was actually hoping to clash my grinder against an Anfim, but there's a significant delay on that and it might not happen anytime soon. To be honest I don't really have anywhere to test my grinder or anyone to borrow a different one from, but I do have my Macap MC4 still with me, so I can always try that. I know it's not a titan, but it normally performs quite well.

I don't do any distribution and the cause is quite simple, there's not enough coffee in the basket to move it around easily and when using a needle the results are pretty much the same. I normally just grind straight into the basket with a small mould in the middle and tamp that. I've seen this technique used by pros in the WBC and it used to work well before. You reckon that's where the problem is? The red/orange stickers are there to show where the 'zero' point is and where 'coarse' and 'fine' is as I turned the grinder in the wrong direction a few times before (tightening when needing to go coarser and vice versa).

There's always around 150-200g of beans in the hopper as I have a timer mounted on the grinder and don't really need to weigh per shot.

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Postby malachi on Tue Nov 24, 2009 11:44 am

Channeling results from water finding the path of least resistance and is a predictor of uneven extraction in the cup.
Uneven extraction results from water over-extracting some coffee and under-extracting other coffee.
One of the most common causes of uneven extraction is uneven density within the coffee bedding as uneven density creates areas where water quickly finds a path of least resistance (meaning water will flow through the "soft spots" in the bedding and avoid the more dense areas).
Tamping is simply a way to preserve the bedding you've created in the portafilter basket.
If you are simply dosing and then tamping, your bedding is guaranteed to be uneven. When you tamp uneven bedding, you get uneven density.

Some people don't distribute but as a general rule this is likely to result in uneven extraction unless the barista is using a grinder that distributes coffee incredibly evenly itself (modified Anfim for example) and usually also tamps quite hard.

So... yeah... given what you've described my guess (and it's just a guess albeit a somewhat informed one) is that your problem is technique. You need to create an even bed of coffee in the portafilter before tamping. How you do that is up to you.
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Postby another_jim on Tue Nov 24, 2009 12:26 pm

Distribution technique is the easiest thing to check; just use WDT as a diagnostic. If the problem goes away, you need to revise your technique; if it doesn't go away, then the problem is the grinder or the coffee (you've already eliminated dose/grind setting, and say the machine hasn't changed)
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Postby dsc on Tue Nov 24, 2009 1:20 pm

Hi guys,

I've tried various types of WDT before and it doesn't really change much, perhaps slightly better than without, but nothing major, which is actually one of the main reasons I ditched it and simplified the whole routine. I will try to get my Macap out and give it a go and I've already set up a meet-up which will allow me to test my grinder on a Synesso and against an Anfim. Looking forward to the meet up as it will answer the question what's wrong, if it's indeed the grinder or the machine.

Do you think it might be the low input pressure on the pump itself? I've got only around 1bar of pressure in the cold water pipes and was wondering if that might be causing me problems. Then again people run rotaries on bottles and it tends to work well, so I don't think that's a big issue.

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