Whale wrote:"I want to establish in your mind clearly that you must not think that I deny all that I do not admit. On the contrary, I think there are many things which may be true, and which I shall receive as such hereafter, though I do not as yet receive them; but that is not because there is any proof to the contrary , but that the proof in the affirmative is not yet sufficient for me " Michael Faraday.

Or, in layman's terms, "I hear your opinion, but if you don't tell me how you arrived at that opinion, and I don't know you, how am I to simply accept that your opinion is the correct one? If I know the process by which you arrived at your opinion, I may have more (or less) faith that it is the true path." Me

Psyd wrote:Or, in layman's terms, "I hear your opinion, but if you don't tell me how you arrived at that opinion, and I don't know you, how am I to simply accept that your opinion is the correct one? If I know the process by which you arrived at your opinion, I may have more (or less) faith that it is the true path." Me

The fact that I know you or not has nothing to do with it. I in fact was greatly illuminated by Dick Green, A.K.A. Peppersass, in this very thread yet I had never even read (maybe noticed, I might have read something without retaining it) a single word from him prior to the thread. Yet it resonated with my prior knowledge. I was right in some ways and wrong in others, in my understanding of my process and it's efffect in my cup. I am looking forward to learn and be proven wrong by "strangers". But it is not because they have a MVP rating of "Guazillion" that I must believe them.

By the way what is that rating anyway? I saw this rating appear beside my name... Did a few search but couldn't find an explanation.

Whale wrote:By the way what is that rating anyway? I saw this rating appear beside my name... Did a few search but couldn't find an explanation.

It's an indicator of how many inane posts you've made. Notice I don't have any rating.
See Most Valued Participants score (MVP)

No takers on eyeballing the doses? I don't blame you. Here's the original montage:


After dialing in a bean, I'm reasonably good at eyeballing a given "natural" dose. But my attempts to hit an arbitrary weight are laughably poor.

Is dose significant? I pulled a couple of 30 second shots, one with a 15g dose and the other with a 16g dose. The liquid weight decreased by 7.5g, raising the brew ratio from 54% to 78%. This is hardly moon beams and fairy tales.

Again, I'm not advocating weighing every dose (not yet, anyway). Like Tim, I'm happy to experience a degree of natural variation in my pours. But I'm convinced that relatively small changes in dose (well under 0.5g) have just as profound an effect on the pour as small changes in temperature and pressure. Those who lust after 0.1F PID'd boilers and Slayer-style pressure profiling might first reconsider the humble digital scale.

cafeIKE wrote:It's an indicator of how many inane posts you've made.

I have just learned a new english term... I would have rather been in a different situation... But it must be true that my comments are insignficant because John didn't notice that I ventured a not so bad estimate of 16 to 20g.

RapidCoffee wrote:No takers on eyeballing the doses? I don't blame you.

Still, am impressed that 15 g could fill the basket. Must be the basket that much. I guess the grinder used give very fluffy grind. I never get a basket that filled with 15 g.

RapidCoffee wrote: But I'm convinced that relatively small changes in dose (well under 0.5g) have just as profound an effect on the pour as small changes in temperature and pressure. Those who lust after 0.1F PID'd boilers and Slayer-style pressure profiling might first reconsider the humble digital scale.

John,

Excuse me, but you have reached an erroneous conclusion!

A very large part of the reason for using esoteric technology in the humble pursuit of espresso making, has nothing whatever to do with the beverage. It has everything to do with playing around with seemingly complicated gizmos and doodads. An $11 digital scale doesn't fit into this schema; it is about as sophisticated as a toilet paper holder.

If people were really interested in the beverage, per se, they would start out with a simple vibe pump (which naturally provides "preinfusion" due to its slow pressure ramp up) then modify that. But vibe pumps are ubiquitous, cheap, and uncomplicated (let's forget about the noise; with "outboarding" that is not a serious issue).

There is no testosterone rush from vibe pumps. Nor from digital scales. Sorry; the beverage is besides the point.

ken

Whale wrote:But it must be true that my comments are insignficant because John didn't notice that I ventured a not so bad estimate of 16 to 20g.

Irrespective of the significance of your comments, I didn't see any attempt to attach specific weights to the four doses.

Whale wrote:Still, am impressed that 15 g could fill the basket. Must be the basket that much. I guess the grinder used give very fluffy grind. I never get a basket that filled with 15 g.

It's hard to dose below 15g, and still fill the basket. I considered tossing in a below-the-rim shot, and decided it would be hitting below the belt.

Ken Fox wrote:An $11 digital scale doesn't fit into this schema; it is about as sophisticated as a toilet paper holder.

Wow, that's one helluva sophisticated toilet paper holder.

Ken Fox wrote:John,

Excuse me, but you have reached an erroneous conclusion!

A very large part of the reason for using esoteric technology in the humble pursuit of espresso making, has nothing whatever to do with the beverage. It has everything to do with playing around with seemingly complicated gizmos and doodads. An $11 digital scale doesn't fit into this schema; it is about as sophisticated as a toilet paper holder.

If people were really interested in the beverage, per se, they would start out with a simple vibe pump (which naturally provides "preinfusion" due to its slow pressure ramp up) then modify that. But vibe pumps are ubiquitous, cheap, and uncomplicated (let's forget about the noise; with "outboarding" that is not a serious issue).

There is no testosterone rush from vibe pumps. Nor from digital scales. Sorry; the beverage is besides the point.

ken

OK then. I guess in that case I'd be happy to take the GS3 and uber grinders currently cluttering up your kitchen.

RapidCoffee wrote:Wow, that's one helluva sophisticated toilet paper holder.

The last toilet paper holder I bought cost about 2X as much as that scale.

ken