I changed beans which changed the settings on the grinder and then came back to my old favorite beans, but am having trouble dialing in.

Before, at 7 or 8 seconds I would get a nice stream not too think not to thin not blond, but not too dark, just right and the taste was great.

Now same tamp, same amount, and what I think seems to be the same grind....

It takes about 10 seconds, then gushes a nice color, but too much, and too fast.

20 seconds would get me 1.2oz.

What am I doing wrong.

I get the feeling its too fine and its "breaking thru" or something else maybe ?

taste is OK, but less strong of course

Even mind readers can't tell whether your shots are channeling unless you use a naked portafilter. If you do use a naked portafilter, there is no need to ask; you can compare your shot to the many thousands of videos posted showing both good and channeled shots.

another_jim wrote:Even mind readers can't tell whether your shots are channeling unless you use a naked portafilter. If you do use a naked portafilter, there is no need to ask; you can compare your shot to the many thousands of videos posted showing both good and channeled shots.

Gee Jim, I thought 'you' were a mind reader.....

I've read many of your contributions to the coffee world, and thought, you would have more patience helping people.

I have a naked portafilter, but would have to reset everything to use it instead of the everyday LM I use. Thanks for the advice though.. I will try it

For what it's worth, it sounds like channeling. But you would need to confirm this with a bottomless portafilter. You may find this troubleshooting checklist helpful.

thanks will do

misterdoggy, don't respond so defensive. Also, try to tighten your grind; "what I think seems to be the same grind...." is not nearly accurate enough to deduce anything from it.

Why do you need to reset everything just to change out a portafilter?
If you use the same basket then the grind setting should be the same.


Grind adjustments to "dial in" espresso are incredibly fine. I think most of us don't realize just how small the adjustments we make really are. A typical adjustment to change the shot timing of a normale double by 5 seconds is on the order of microns in burr separation distance (maybe 1/2 the diameter of a human hair). What this means is that the thread backlash of the burr carriers is significant in terms of shot timing.

Boiled down, I'm saying that even if you have a stepped grinder and adjusted up and then back down to a marked position you will have created a variance large enough to cause a difference in shot timing. So I believe that to regain a dialed-in adjustment you must approach the marked position from the same direction each time and then grind a couple shots to "settle" the position.


And I'll also agree that the naked portafilter is the best way to diagnose channeling.

Bruce, can you post more details?

First of all, what grinder is this? Is it your new Kony? I've experienced 'drifts' with conical grinders as they break in; the effective setting gets coarser and you have to adjust finer. This may solve your problem.

I assuming you're using the Domobar super, so being an E61 ~8 seconds of "dwell time" before full pressure is reached is pretty normal, and 10 seconds is a little long, but not impossibly longer. How is your distribution? If you're getting a choke and then a gushing break-through, then you'd have to really be doing something horribly wrong in my exerience. Sounds like you've either got grinder drift, a slight error in returning to your old grinder setting, or your beans' extraction properties are drifting as a result of aging (you didn't tell us about this).

Those guesses aside, you should seriously buy a naked portafilter or have one made. They are extremely useful and quite cheap compared to high-end grinders as you have in your list.

misterdoggy wrote:I changed beans which changed the settings on the grinder and then came back to my old favorite beans, but am having trouble dialing in.

when you say "came back to my old favorite beans"...

1 - how long has passed between when you were last pulling shots of these beans and now?
2 - is this the same BATCH of these beans, or a different batch?
3 - what beans are these and from whom?

misterdoggy wrote:It takes about 10 seconds, then gushes a nice color, but too much, and too fast.
20 seconds would get me 1.2oz.
What am I doing wrong.
taste is OK, but less strong of course

If you were to ignore the ways it "used" to be - and read the above - what would your likely explanation be?

Logic would say that the problem is simply that the grind is too coarse, right?

Even mind readers can't tell whether your shots are channeling unless you use a naked portafilter.

Jim, Sorry for the "knee Jerk" reaction, you are right, I understand I need to put more info for people to be able to compute, Please excuse

Also, try to tighten your grind; "what I think seems to be the same grind...." is not nearly accurate enough to deduce anything from it.

Roeland you are right !

Exactly what I did and Now Its tuned in. The grinds were too coarse, but on top of that my method of measuring which is to fill the portafilter to the rim, then with the back of my finger lightly brush off the excess being careful not to tamp as I brush. However, I noticed with the coarser grounds, the Tamper was sitting higher in the basket? With finer grounds the tamper sits lower in the basket before tamping under the weight of its on pressure.

So Finer grinding makes for more compact portafilter with the same volume (not necessarily weight)

Equation is: Finer Grind = more weight @ the same volume

First of all, what grinder is this? Is it your new Kony? I've experienced 'drifts' with conical grinders as they break in; the effective setting gets coarser and you have to adjust finer.

Thanks Nicholas,

I am still waiting for delivery of the Kony E and am using the SJ with doser. Once I have the Electric time setting life becomes alot more predictable and repeatable. I also have a Macap M4D and you get the exact amount each time.

In the doser non doser arena I am for the non doser camp when you have a digital timer and live with the clumps.

If you were to ignore the ways it "used" to be - and read the above - what would your likely explanation be?
Logic would say that the problem is simply that the grind is too coarse, right?

Chris you hit the nail on the head, Logic and reality were the grind was too coarse

Thanks everyone, sorry I did not post enough info and now know to really detail or better yet take a video to explain better.

I'm back to 25 second 1oz shots that taste great, and will stay with the same beans as they are my favorites. Moka Harrare, Just love that Chocolaty taste..