espresso machines at 1st-line.com

Do I need to clean my grinder? - Page 2

Postby Bob_McBob on Sun Aug 22, 2010 3:16 am

From Compak K10 WBC Maintenance:

Ken Fox wrote:What is the point of any of this? Are you running something foul through your grinder?

I must admit to being baffled by reading about home users who feel they need to disassemble their commercial grinders in order to "clean" them. What exactly are you cleaning inside of the grinder? Do you have vermin running around your house who get into the recesses of your grinder? Are you grinding something other than coffee in your grinder?

I could understand it if one was to buy an old used and abused commercial grinder, received it in deplorable condition, and wanted to clean it up. What I can't understand is the compulsion to disassemble a commercial grinder, in light home service, with the only apparent justification being that the grinder can be disassembled and that there are other people posting on the internet about how they disassembled their grinders, so hey, why not do it yourself?

My personal opinion is that if you regularly use your grinder, there will be some coffee build up in certain recesses that will fill voids internally. Even if you "clean and remove" these small collections of coffee from the innerds of your grinder, the next time you use it new coffee bits and pieces and grinds will end up refilling these recesses, and you will have accomplished essentially zero. Taking commercial grinders apart is not as benign a procedure as it may appear. The soft brass burr carrier threads are easily misthreaded and if you do this, you are going to have a much bigger problem on your hands than a few stray grinds in the recesses of the innerds of your grinder.

Granted, sometimes you have to change burrs, and that's a good reason to open up a grinder. Granted, sometimes people buy old and abused grinders that are simply too GROSS, too unappetizing, to consider using them without a major cleanup. But in the case of a home user with his home grinder, often a grinder designed for much more use than the home user is going to give it -- what is the point of all this? What is the proof that this sort of ritual accomplishes anything that anyone can taste?

Here are my suggestions: (1) don't take your grinder apart unless there is a really good reason to do so; (2) don't run disgusting beans through your grinder, and then you won't feel you need to take it apart unnecessarily; (3) keep the parts of your grinder that are accessible to you clean; by this I mean the discharge chute from the burr chamber to the doser, the discharge chute from the doser to the PF, the doser itself, and the hopper; (4) if your grinder sits for a prolonged period unused, consider using one of the commercial grinder cleaner products, then grind some decent beans afterwards to clean out the cleaning product.

If someone, anyone, could post here about their experiences taking their commercial grinders apart regularly and what they have observed in the taste of their shots afterwards, that was different, I'd love to hear it.

ken
Chris
LMWDP #295
User avatar
Bob_McBob
 
Posts: 926
Joined: Jan 21, 2009
Location: Waterloo, ON Canada

Postby Theodore on Sun Aug 22, 2010 12:54 pm

What about my Nino grinder?Have I to remove the upper burr,(which I mean is difficult),or it is enough, dropping some Grindz in the funnel?
Espresso uber alles.
Theodore
 
Posts: 208
Joined: Dec 26, 2006
Location: Athens Greece

Postby Ken Fox on Mon Aug 23, 2010 12:58 am

I continue to feel exactly as I did when I made the post that was pasted in, above.

Until someone can demonstrate to me in some sort of believable fashion that regularly disassembling and cleaning a commercial grinder in home service has any impact whatsoever on the taste of shots, I'll continue to use my "dirty" or "contaminated" grinders as I posted some time back.

If any of this "gross material" that supposedly is contaminating your shots if you don't disassemble and clean regularly is in fact present in a quantity sufficient to effect the taste of your shots -- then it should be obvious that there is a reason to perform this ritual. I don't buy it. Not only do I not buy it, but I think you are inviting unnecessary damage to your prized, expensive, grinder by doing so.

I will continue to believe that the most important thing is to be careful what you run through your grinder (nothing grossly overroasted and oily, nothing other than coffee, no flavored beans). If there is a gap in your continuous usage of your grinder that is longer than say 7 or 10 days, you could use a commercial grinder cleaning product or maybe Minute rice, to flush out anything that might be adherent and likely to be dislodged later when you grind. I use Puly Grind cleaner for this but there are other products as well.

As a home roaster I periodically end up with some old green beans that I do not want to roast for consumption. I roast these in a batch or two then freeze them for later use, to help remove any remaining grinder cleaner on those infrequent times when I use a grinder cleaner, such as after I've been gone on one of my twice yearly, month-long trips to France. I do this only because I'd prefer not to waste some really good beans for the sole purpose of ridding my grinders of remaining traces of grinder cleaning powder. 40 or 50 g of coffee is sufficient in my experience to flush out the powder that remains after using a commercial grinder cleaner.

Similar arguments such as those used in favor of disassembling commercial grinders in the home could be made for all sorts of things. Do you have any idea how gross some of the recesses inside your refrigerator might look? Maybe you should disassemble the compressor motor mounts every few months, just in case. That is your family's food in there, after all. How about the oven in your kitchen? I'd bet that if you got a really good look with a magnifying glass of the insides of your kitchen faucet, you could make a really good argument for taking that apart, down to the washers and valves, every 3 months or so.

ken
What, me worry?

Alfred E. Neuman, 1955
Ken Fox
 
Posts: 2458
Joined: Oct 28, 2005
Location: Idaho

Postby Randy G. on Mon Aug 23, 2010 1:19 am

I agree with Ken.

Unless there is an overwhelming reason to open it up like:
- foreign object removal
- burr replacement
- occasional lubrication of threads
Just use Grindz if you have the urge to clean it out such as when it will not be used for an extended period of time or when it smells not good....
Espresso! My Espresso!
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
User avatar
Randy G.
 
Posts: 2224
Joined: May 12, 2007
Location: Yankee Hill, CA

Postby Bluecold on Mon Aug 23, 2010 3:05 am

Grindz is more expensive than opening up you grinder and having a go with the brush.
You'd have to be a complete idiot if you manage to crossthread the burr carrier. It's so easy to do it right. Just turn the other way until the threads fall into place and then screw it all the way down.
LMWDP #232
"Though I Fly Through the Valley of Death I Shall Fear No Evil For I am at 80,000 Feet and Climbing."
User avatar
Bluecold
 
Posts: 1060
Joined: Jul 10, 2008
Location: The Netherlands

Postby Randy G. on Mon Aug 23, 2010 8:18 am

Bluecold wrote:Grindz is more expensive than opening up you grinder and having a go with the brush.
You'd have to be a complete idiot if you manage to crossthread the burr carrier. It's so easy to do it right. Just turn the other way until the threads fall into place and then screw it all the way down.


If we ignore the rudeness of that statement, we can address this topic based on what I was taught as firefighter:
Assess the level of risk vs. gain.
Read Ken's statements in this thread. IF there is anything to be gained in cleaning out the grounds in there then shouldn't it be done after every session? After cleaning it would only take one or two uses to build that coffee up again and you are right back to where you started.

As far as idiots go, there are some grinders that make replacement of the carrier more difficult. The spring-loaded carrier on the Mazzers is a bit more difficult to replace than the Rancilio Rocky. The Rocky's threads are of low tolerance (comparatively speaking) and removing and replacing can make that situation even worse. Tall grinders on counters owned by short people increases the chance of crossthreading because they are not directly over the grinder. This means possibly moving the grinder to another location (onto the floor?), and carrying a grinder adds another risk.

If crossthreading a fastener makes one an idiot, then every mechanic in the world is most likely an idiot. The carriers of some grinders are made of softer material than others. It does not take much to muck up that first thread. After that, each time it is inserted and removed it can cause damage to the threads in the body.

I wish I was perfect, and although I have never cross-threaded a grinder's burr carrier (I came darn close once with a Rocky), I have had that happen with other fasteners. If you look at the cost and difficulty of replacing those grinder parts, or even the cost of a broken bean hopper and compare that to the questionable gain from repeated disassembly and reassembly of the grinder, and the questionable befits from doing so, it doesn't make sense... too high a risk for too little gain.

I remove the upper carrier from my Kony when the adjustment begins to become difficult indicating that there is either excessive grounds in the threads or the lubrication needs to be replenished. Other than that, I try to leave it alone.
Espresso! My Espresso!
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
User avatar
Randy G.
 
Posts: 2224
Joined: May 12, 2007
Location: Yankee Hill, CA

Postby Bert K on Mon Aug 23, 2010 9:32 am

Yes, you can do it wrong, but to call it a risk? It is so easy and such a quick job that I take my chances. Just undo a big screw en put a vacuum in its throat, simple maintenance.
Bert K
 
Posts: 58
Joined: Mar 23, 2010
Location: Rotterdam, Netherlands

Postby zin1953 on Mon Aug 23, 2010 11:09 am

Randy, there is risk doing everything . . . crossing a six-lane street is more risky than crossing a two-lane one, yet it's something we do every day -- with or without a light, crosswalk, or other "aids," judging by what I see happen all the time.

Cross-threading is a minimal risk if you take your time and do what I'll call "proper" maintenance. (As opposed to being is a super-hurry and not paying proper attention.) And for me personally, I'd rather clean out the ground stale coffee.

OTOH, one thing I learned with my Cimbali Max Hybrid is that whole beans would lodge atop the burr carrier and in various crevices about the machine (without doing the "throat mod"). At first, I was concerned about this, but then -- through experience and through posts here -- I realized that once the beans were so lodged, they prevented other beans from being lodged, and therefore were not a problem in terms of stale beans. The beans that became lodged could stay there for a year, two years, 152 years with no problem . . . and when cleaned out, they were merely replaced with newer beans (again, without doing the "mod"). Thus, why bother?

Cheers,
Jason
A morning without coffee is sleep. -- Anon.
zin1953
 
Posts: 2513
Joined: Dec 27, 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA USA

Previous

Return to Tips and Techniques