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Do doserless grinders really need a screen at exit chute?

Postby mitch236 on Wed Nov 17, 2010 11:40 am

I was reading Schomer's Blog and came across his take on doserless grinders. He says that there needs to be a gate at the exit chute of the grinder but not because of static causing grinds to fly all over the place. He states the gate is necessary because, "static will draw the micro-particles to the edges of the 'cloud' of ground coffee ruining the extraction". Could this be true? I removed my static screen because I don't have a static problem causing grounds to fly out. Maybe I need to put it back in? He also states the gate needs to be tuned for each grinder/location.
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Postby cafeIKE on Wed Nov 17, 2010 12:30 pm

I removed the gate on my MXK. It still gets the same amount of dust on the doser body.
The coffee itself is charged. If what Big D says is true, you'd need a tube all the way from the throat to the basket. The coffee drops through air into the doser and into the basket from the doser.

Big D also says you have to change the grind with every change in humidity.
Grinder Adjustments: Tuning Your Espresso

Schomer says a lot.

Some of us ignore a lot.
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Postby another_jim on Wed Nov 17, 2010 2:58 pm

The usual amateur reason given for the screens, by clueless people like the manufacturers themselves and lots of users, is that it breaks up clumps, reduces static and allows the basket to fill more evenly. The drawback is that for home use, you have to sacrifice grind to purge the spout of old grinds, rather than using a brush.

But I do like the drama of some of Schomer's ideas.
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Postby alex e on Wed Nov 17, 2010 3:25 pm

Hey Jim on my SJ doserless I do get clumping behind the screen (not sure how many grams but a good bit) and brush them out after the majority of grinds have fallen into the PF, and I've brushed the throat of the grinder to knock any unground particles into the burrs. Is doing this upsetting the espresso gods? I understand the old grinds left in the chute could be affecting things, but is specifically brushing AFTER grinding to get the last of the grinds to take the plunge a bad thing?
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Postby another_jim on Wed Nov 17, 2010 4:13 pm

Brushing out the chute after grinding is home-barista SOP. If you single dose, you can clean out the grind chamber too by pulsing th grinder, and you don't need to sacrifice grind at all. If you have a hopper and accessible chute, you clear the chute but not the chamber and need to sac grind a 2 or 3 grams. If you have a screen on the chute, you can't clean out the loose grinds at all, and need to sac-grind about 4 to 5 grams each time around.

Chute screened, doserless grinders are usually more convenient and less messy for filling the PF, using a hopper is faster than spooning coffee down the grinder throat, and sac-grinding is faster than cleaning out the grinder with a brush; but all these conveniences waste coffee in a home setting. So despite all the acrimonious threads; it's not really an argument, but more a matter of which drawback you like least.
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Postby alex e on Wed Nov 17, 2010 4:48 pm

None of it bothers me except having too big a brush to sweep out the leftover grounds...........
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Postby HB on Wed Nov 17, 2010 9:34 pm

David's interesting observations aside, Mazzer attorneys believe the screen is a patent-worthy novelty. Reposted for your reference:

HB wrote:Plastered on the side of the Mazzer Mini E is a sticker "US PATENT 6,948,668 B2". Curious about what claims they registered, I searched for the details of the patent and found Coffee grinder-dispenser. It was issued Sep 27, 2005 to Giovanni Mazzer. Its abstract states:

    A coffee grinder-dispenser comprising a base, a grinder located within the base, an electric motor for operating the grinder, and a hopper, or cup, for receiving the coffee beans to be ground. A funnel is secured to the base, to receive the ground coffee, or powder via a distribution channel that extends in a horizontal plane. A grid, comprising spaced stainless steel rods, extending vertically and horizontally, is positioned in the entry hole or port of the funnel in alignment with the distribution conduit of the grinder-dispenser. The grid reduces the velocity of the ground coffee, or powder, so that the powder does not accumulate upon, or adhere to, the walls of the funnel. Consequently, when a lever on the base is operated, an accurate amount of ground coffee is discharged from the funnel into a conventional filter holder.
I read the claims carefully and the thrust of the invention is "an accurate amount of ground coffee is discharged from the funnel into a conventional filter holder." I noticed the clumping was reduced too, but that was not among the claims. Perhaps it's because John Weiss had already donated his WDT to the public domain?

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Postby Marshall on Wed Nov 17, 2010 9:39 pm

I have one of the first "post-NSF modifications" Mahlkonig ProM's, and it has (and needs) no grate. Instead, there are two small, rubbery flaps inside its very short chute. One is near the top and is fitted at the front side. The second is a shorter flap on the rear side at the exit.

Their function seems to be to deflect coffee straight down into the basket and (I think I recall Gary Horne saying) to absorb static. In the nearly two months I have used it, the grinder has produced no static coffee cling anywhere and no clumping. And there is nothing to sweep out of the chute, although they supply a little brush with the grinder that I have never used.

In case it makes a difference, I will note that I only use it for espresso, grinding about 18g at a time.

I like this design a lot.
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Postby another_jim on Thu Nov 18, 2010 12:42 am

The Bunn LPG, designed to grind for filter coffee, also has two rubber flaps on the exit. They retain some grinds, so I tried removing them. One grind later I put them back on; without them the coffee was not in a pile at the bottom of the cup, but plastered very evenly all along its walls. The flaps works very well to control the way the ground coffee handles; but don't know if they retain less or more grinds than a screen
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Postby Marshall on Thu Nov 18, 2010 1:36 am

No grounds cling to the flaps, which are very thin.
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