Difficulty dialing-in Baratza Vario grind setting - Page 2

Beginner and pro baristas share tips and tricks for making espresso.
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algue
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#11: Post by algue »

I did a lot of tests with singles in my 58mm filter machines.
I never got good results with 7g dose, although 7g is the suggested dose for commercial machines here in italy.
Currently I'm dosing 8,5g and I think it is the best compromise for singles.
Alberto

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Fullsack
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#12: Post by Fullsack »

An uneven distribution could also be the culprit. This site has numerous threads on the subject; try doing a specific search.
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Randy G.
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#13: Post by Randy G. »

FORGET TIMING! Also put the single basket in the drawer for now. For a new home bearista with a new espresso machine and a new grinder there is far more to learn and worry about that the minute details such as these.

First - a single basket amplifies preparation problems. Make doubles for now. When you get to the point that you can go through a pound of a coffee and get about the same results from day to day, then we can talk. When you get to the point that you can taste the difference between the first day's use of a pound to the last day's use as the pound is exhausted, then we can move on.

Timing - Turn on the espresso machine. When the flow looks like water instead of warm honey, you went about two seconds too long. When you can predict when that happens you have made progress.

On my website www.EspressoMyEspresso.com, check out this article: 12 - EASY GUIDE TO BETTER ESPRESSO AT HOME.

Espresso is all about consistency. At this point I mirror the statement of a previous post in that a bottomless portafilter is a much better diagnostic tool than a stopwatch. If you are not using a scale that can weigh to 0.1 grams to measure your dose then most of the rest of your efforts towards consistency are going to be lost. If you do not have consistency in all areas of preparation, and I do mean all (machine warm up time, flushing to temperature, weighing the dose, distribution, and tamping among others) and you get a good shot, how will you know what you did and how to repeat it? If you get a bad shot suddenly, how will you know what to change?

The science of espresso on your side of the portafilter handle deals with controlling the variables. When you have that in hand, then you can change the dose by .2 grams and change the grind to match, and you can taste the difference, you will know what that change in procedure meant in the cup. Until then it is like throwing a deck of cards up in the air and hoping a straight flush lands on the table right in front of you, and calling yourself a poker player.

If you are discouraged by all that, then maybe espresso is not for you. Me? You may not want to take what I wrote above too seriously because I have only been doing this for 13½ years so am still a beginner myself.
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maccompatible (original poster)
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#14: Post by maccompatible (original poster) »

So the single basket is a bad idea! Alrighty then. I switched to the double basket this morning. The only two things I need now are a better tamper (I'll get the one I ordered tomorrow) and a 0.1 g scale. I decided to measure my tamp at 30 lbs (because I had no idea what I was tamping at before, and as everyone has said, it's all about consistency). Suddenly, my grind was WAAAY too coarse. It looked like a waterfall under my PF. But at least now I can keep my tamp (known and) consistent and work on the grind. I cranked my vario to the finest setting, while keeping everything as much the same as possible. Here's what I got:

My vario is on 1A with a 14g dose
I distributed it by twisting the PF in one hand and sweeping my finger lightly across the top
It took about 10 seconds after turning on the pump to see my first drop.
After about another 10 seconds, it turned into a small, even stream on both spouts.
It took about 30 more for the stream to blonde (as far as I could tell)
Not a whole lot of crema..
The final weight was 36g

Here's what I believe I need to improve:
Loosen the grind.
Tamp with a 58mm tamper instead of the minuscule plastic nonsense my machine came with.
Cut the shot sooner (I wish I had seen the previous post before this morning's shots. Warm honey. Not water..)
Ensure all other factors stay the same (I definitely need a more accurate scale.)
Ignore the stopwatch and get a bottomless PF.

Any other tips based on these results?
"Wait. People drink coffee just for the caffeine??"
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DanoM
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#15: Post by DanoM »

Sounds like your Vario is "calibrated" a little loose. There is no norm on these, or zero point, so you have to calibrate by sound. (Watch their video regarding that if needed.) If it works for you, then that's fine though.

My Vario, when on the tightest setting would make turkish coffee level fine grind. I never had to calibrate mine in the year I owned it though. I think my finest espresso grinds were in the 2-C range, with most in the 3 range somewhere.
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bmb
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#16: Post by bmb »

I rather have two singles to one double and for me, the single basket works well, although it has some little secrets to get it right.

Different baskets may need different tampers, different dose and grind.

From the baskets I tried out, the LM are the only that work well (with normal doses) with the same grind for singles or doubles.

A 58mm flat tamper won't do a good work with my baskets, while I get consistent good results with a curve 56mm one.

My favorite single basket is a LM, dosed at 8,5gr and used together with a 41mm tamper and funnel set from Tidaka (Germany), it's so easy that it feels like cheating !

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canuckcoffeeguy
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#17: Post by canuckcoffeeguy »

DanoM wrote:Sounds like your Vario is "calibrated" a little loose. There is no norm on these, or zero point, so you have to calibrate by sound. (Watch their video regarding that if needed.) If it works for you, then that's fine though.

My Vario, when on the tightest setting would make turkish coffee level fine grind. I never had to calibrate mine in the year I owned it though. I think my finest espresso grinds were in the 2-C range, with most in the 3 range somewhere.
Yes, as a Vario owner, it sounds like you may need to recalibrate. Although, not all Varios are, or need to be, calibrated the same...but you might benefit from a tighter calibration. This would give you more range in your espresso sweet spot.

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maccompatible (original poster)
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#18: Post by maccompatible (original poster) »

I really appreciate all your help guys. Here's an update on my espresso journey.

Since posting, I added the following gear:
A nice metal tamper that fits my double basket
A scale measuring to 0.1g
A graduated shot glass

I'm dosing at 14.0g with my vario on 1J. Then I'm using a sewing needle to do the WDT before leveling with a table knife and tamping at 30 lbs and lightly polishing. It looks very nice and level. This grind setting produces a ~30g shot in about 30 seconds from switching on the pump. The only problem left is that none of my shots have much crema. I'm pegging that on old/stale beans since my local roastery didn't specify when the beans we're roasted. I'll make sure to ask next time.

With all the diagnostics out of the way, the shots I'm pulling with the last of my bag taste pretty good. Nowhere near the best espresso I've had, but quite drinkable considering the old beans.

Thanks again for all your help. Now it just comes down to practice!
"Wait. People drink coffee just for the caffeine??"
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pcrussell50
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#19: Post by pcrussell50 »

Couple things...

1) Giving us your setting on your particular Vario is either worthless or a half step from it. See by the time you've performed the calibration procedure your way, and everybody else with a Vario has done it their way, and unless you are both using the same beans out of the same bag, with the same extraction weight ratio, stating what setting works for you is meaningless. Further, every time I recalibrate my Vario, my baseline settings change by quite a bit... As expected.

2) Something more subjective... But your extraction ratio where your beverage weight is more than double your bean weight, while in the range of old school traditional espresso, is not the direction the modern wave of espresso is headed. If you've been to any of the well known espresso joints often discussed here, they are probably far from that 2:1 ratio and in the range where the beverage weight is only 1.5x or less, the bean weight. The reason I bring this up is that you mention your own espresso not quite measuring up to what you get in the commercial establishment you frequent. They might be pulling considerably richer extractions than you are.

3) And finally... Freshness of beans cannot be overemphasized. It is not some subtle thing that only expert tasters can detect. It is huge and obvious and even novices can taste the difference once their techniques reach the level of consistent reproducibility.

-Peter
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maccompatible (original poster)
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#20: Post by maccompatible (original poster) »

Hey Peter,
1) I'm just demonstrating I'm not maxed out on fineness as suggested earlier in the thread. I have plenty of room for a finer grind if I need it.
2) After a couple weeks working on my espresso, I decided to compare it to my local coffeehouse where I'm getting my beans. Their shots are certainly much richer than mine. I'll try to updose and play with the brew ratio.
3) I bought a new bag of beans while there. The barista said they were just roasted a half hour ago. :D I can't wait to start pulling shots with them.
"Wait. People drink coffee just for the caffeine??"
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