Dialing in a new espresso machine, a step by step guide - Page 8

#71: Post by **boyscout** » February 15th, 2010, 9:51 am

Thanks Dave for so thoroughly sharing your adventures.

I came to this thread after following the advice of another denizen of this board, another_jim, who advises that if the first drops of an E-61 shot appear in less than eight seconds then it is ground "way too coarse".

When I grind finer trying to follow Jim's advice, my drinks have a powdery/sandy feel on the tongue and a more bitter finish. With slight dosing changes and the most consistent tamping this inconsistent operator can provide, it's now seven to eight seconds before the first drip, about 30 seconds to get 1.75 oz, appearance is not bad (don't have naked portafilter) but taste is not good.

So I came here to find out what else I should change, and noticed that the first drops of Dave's dialed-in shots on his E-61 appear within a second or two of starting the pull.

Dave, Jim, go to your respective corners and come out fighting! Or at least please advise this confused operator, thanks.

http://users.rcn.com/erics/ · #72: Post by **erics** » February 15th, 2010, 2:06 pm

Would you "buy" 6 to 8 seconds?

And a time range would be different for a lever actuated E-61 (pre-infusion chamber) vice one equipped with a brew solenoid (essentially zilch pre-infusion).

#73: Post by HB » February 15th, 2010, 2:52 pm

boyscout wrote:So I came here to find out what else I should change, and noticed that the first drops of Dave's dialed-in shots on his E-61 appear within a second or two of starting the pull.

From the first post of this thread:

Dave says, "Help, I just got a new espresso machine and my shots are horrible!"

Dave shows the Elektra A3, which has no preinfusion, a rotary pump, and ramps up to full pressure in an instant (see Pressure profiles, preinfusion and the forgiveness factor for related details). It is not comparable to an E61.

#74: Post by **boyscout** » February 15th, 2010, 3:19 pm

HB wrote:Dave shows the Elektra A3, which has no preinfusion, a rotary pump, and ramps up to full pressure in an instant. It is not comparable to an E61.

Thanks Dan. Didn't know... saw that similar-looking group... my Giotto Professional E-61 has a rotary pump, group pressure gauge shoots to 8.5 or so as soon as the pump turns on. It's a different animal altogether?

#75: Post by HB » February 15th, 2010, 3:39 pm

boyscout wrote:It's a different animal altogether?

That's correct. The post excerpted below from No matter what I do, I get channeling! elaborates:

sdavidp wrote:That's interesting, because if the pressure gauge on my duetto is correct it's getting up to 9.5 bar almost immediately...

HB wrote:Rotary pumps reach full pressure in an instant and the tee leading to the pressure gauge is prior to the gicleur. That is, the gauge is measuring the pump pressure, not the actual brew pressure in the grouphead. Also the expansion chamber does delay the onset of higher brew pressure, but the effect is more noticeable with rotary E61 espresso machines as noted in Pressure profiles, preinfusion and the forgiveness factor:

Pressure profile of E61 with vibratory and rotary pump

The profile of the rotary pump-equipped E61 on the right has a distinct "knee" at the point that the expansion chamber filled.

#76: Post by **!Neurogenesis** » June 6th, 2010, 9:58 pm

This has been very helpful to a newbie. I am sort of in love with the Elektra both aesthetically and for its more quantitative virtues. Thank you Dave!