You grind finer with a lower dose and vise versa. But .....

I want to try tasting a normale (or thereabouts) extraction with a low dose AND a coarser grind. One option would probably be using single baskets, but they're harder to prep and I get too many sink shots with them. Another option is a tight double basket (How do you find your tightest basket?), but this could be a difficult basket to find.

I'm thinking some smart HBer could suggest other options. Any ideas?

Pressurized portafilter?

Oh, you said "smart", not "smart-ass"...

coffee.me wrote:I want to try tasting a normale (or thereabouts) extraction with a low dose AND a coarser grind.

Maybe you're thinking of caffe swiss. It's very popular in Switzerland and thereabouts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caff%C3%A8_crema), but not what most of the rest of the world thinks of as espresso. Come to think of it, even caffe swiss requires a higher dose, not a lower one.

Frankly, you're looking for ways to avoid the laws of physics and chemistry.

This isn't extreme stuff, we know grind size (not only dose) affects taste and we know that different coffees can taste best at different grind settings. Seriously people, with all the sick stuff we try here, no one ever wanted to try such a thing?

allon wrote:Pressurized portafilter?

Oh, you said "smart", not "smart-ass"...

This made me laugh

Marshall wrote:Maybe you're thinking of caffe swiss. It's very popular in Switzerland and thereabouts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caff%C3%A8_crema), but not what most of the rest of the world thinks of as espresso. Come to think of it, even caffe swiss requires a higher dose, not a lower one.

Frankly, you're looking for ways to avoid the laws of physics and chemistry.

Now this isn't funny, and definitely not helpful

coffee.me wrote:You grind finer with a lower dose and vise versa. But .....

I want to try tasting a normale (or thereabouts) extraction with a low dose AND a coarser grind.

Two questions:

1. What's preventing you?

2. Why?

Funny or not, Marshall was cogent. You want to see what happens if you spur the horse and pull the reins at the same time? Don't be surprised if it doesn't work out.

BDL

boar_d_laze wrote:Two questions:

1. What's preventing you?

2. Why?

1. It, obviously, won't work with standard technique & equipment. Low dose+coarse grind=upside down volcano. This is HB, this should be common knowledge.

2. Why not? Don't you tweak your grind and dose for different coffees?

boar_d_laze wrote: You want to see what happens if you spur the horse and pull the reins at the same time? Don't be surprised if it doesn't work out.
BDL

Of course it works, at rodeos.
Now as far as the OP thread goes lets say coffee X pulls a 17g 2oz double shot normale in 25sec that is well balanced tasting delish. Take same coffee x grind coarser, reduced dose to 13g and you could still pull 2oz but as most anyone knows it will run much faster yielding a thin, watery and highly likely bitter shot. No way around it. Do I NEED to go in the kitchen and test the varacity of the statement? No, over a decade experience makes it unnecessary. Some things are worth investigating, some are simply a waste of time.

Mike, the question is about pulling the low dose, coarser grind, shot at a similar time and yield as our everyday shots. The question is really about A WAY AROUND what we all know would happen without testing.

This isn't as weird as replies here make it to be. As I mentioned on my OP, we already do this with singles: lower dose and coarser grind for a normale in 25s or so. I hope now you can see why allon's sarcastic pressurized portafilter reply was at least relevant.

Again, any one?

coffee.me wrote:1. It, obviously, won't work with standard technique & equipment. [snip]. This is HB, this should be common knowledge.

Precisely.

2. Why not? Don't you tweak your grind and dose for different coffees?

Por supesto. Beinsur, even. And in the course of tweakery, I've discarded strategies, methods, techniques and equipment which don't work in favor of those which do. One thing I don't do is try to go in opposite directions at the same time. By grinding coarse, lowering dose, and increasing back pressure, you're trying to over and under extract simultaneously.

Perhaps more to the point is identifying which qualities of a coffee are you trying to bring out and which you want to suppress.

I can get a pretty good idea of whether or not the grind is right by looking at the flow, and taste; of whether or not the dose is right by looking at color as the flow runs, timing the pour, some other stuff, and taste.

When switching coffees, I know what I want a shot to look like during the pour, how long it should take, and adjust accordingly mostly on sight cues. Pretty mechanical really. If there's something I need to do to try and improve the taste, I'll start playing with grind. If the right grind means I have to change dose, that's fine. Still, not much of a challenge. With a new coffee, finding the right temp is less mundane.

However, as the coffee ages and the weather changes, keeping the grind dialed becomes a matter of daily adjustment.

If you already have the technique and equipment to consistently pull good shots, your goal -- other than the laudable one of just screwing around -- is unclear.

BDL