OK, I've read comments regarding sweet & thick, chocolaty, etc... espresso shots. Sounds like nirvana! The closest that I've come is a hint of dark chocolate aftertaste, but nothing approaching sweet. Most of the time I can achieve a coffee-tasting shot of espresso. Enjoyable... even good. But nothing like I've read mentioned here. Every time we stay at a new place (we are full-time RV'ers) I look for the coffee shops. So far, nothing approaching this level of pleasure anywhere. I've bought FRESH roasted Malabar Gold, Black Cat, different blends from Caffe Fresco, Barefoot, Blue Nile... plus I've bought green beans from many suppliers (mainly that's what I do now) and roast my own. My signature shows my grinder (MACAP M4 doserless), roaster (SC/TO), and espresso machine (Cremina)... Isomac is being prepared for sale...

I would simply love to enjoy espresso like many of you post about... any suggestions? Throw me your questions about my process, setup, etc../

Thanks,

I was also looking for this, and started to think the taste explanation was exaggerated.
(not only looking in my own cups but around town)

I accidentaly made 1 shot like this recently, and it is beautiful.
It was very caramel and not bitter.
It was thick and creamy with a round aftertaste.

Ive been trying to reproduce it and its not easy.

What made me get it was higher dose, slower extraction and less volume,
so that could be something to experiment with.

I got the tips from this forum

Thanks for the reply Griff... I struggle with what I learned and didn't master regarding 'pump' driven machines and what I have, evidently, not mastered regarding my lever machine (Cremina). I read about 'over-dosing', under-dosing, finer grind, less tamp pressure, and have yet to find the 'clue' for finding (not the God-shot) the really good shot.

I don't know if it's just a personal preference thing, but I've never had a shot of espresso that was both really good, and really sweet. I've pulled a couple shots that were a little sweet at home, but they were all very short ristrettos that were boring in every other way. And I've pulled a couple very good shots at home, and none of them were very sweet. I had a shot of Yirg at Simons that was excellent, and maybe the sweetest I've ever gotten at a cafe, but the sweetness was definitely overshadowed by all the other flavors.

Personally if I want a shot that's got some sweetness in it, I'll just add a touch of sugar, which is a lot easier then trying to get everything to align perfectly to get all the great flavors I want plus a lot of sweetness. Of course maybe I've just never got the chance to try really outstanding espresso that's interesting and caramelly sweet, I probably need to get out more

Thanks for your reply, Tristan... of course you'll notice that I did say, "Sounds like nirvana"! I know, and I've 'heard' / 'read' that this quest is all about preference, personal taste, etc... but there are so many that post about that awesome sweet (and even as you post... ) "caramelly" taste... that I have to wonder and inquire as to how to achieve such a taste. ????

Well.. how sweet are you expecting it to be?

Its still coffee.

Now, dont get me wrong.. espresso definitely can be sweet. but if you are trying to compare it to frosting, or candy... well.. no, then it's not exactly sweet.

Ive had many shots i would call sweet, that if I compared them to frosting, then no, they wouldn't have been sweet.


Very rarely does espresso taste like ONE thing. Some really great coffees have one component that just POPS in your face... but its all still coffee, and will always be, first and foremost.. coffee.

LOL!

That's legit!

I'm not expecting caramel apples, sweet milk chocolate, almond etc... etc..

I'm retired (shhh closing in on 60, yeah I know, blessed to be retired), I've been chasing espresso for 5 years... I've been reading these posts regarding how sweet, mellow, caramelly, etc... espresso is to different people, chasers, coffee lovers... I'm just trying to figure out if I'm "over-expecting", under-achieving, or simply being over-expecting due to posts by people like me that really want to achieve the optimum results of our equipment.

I love coffee. My drip (Technivorm - Moccamaster) coffee is wonderful... ask anyone!
My espresso is enjoyed, in a search-able mode, by me.
I'm really hoping to achieve what so many post about.

Thanks,

TheBlacksmith wrote:...I would simply love to enjoy espresso like many of you post about... any suggestions? Throw me your questions about my process, setup, etc..

Hi Danny...
I think my taster-gene is weak or defective...

I have pulled some shots which are incredible, and some could be described as sweeter than others, yet not perhaps what my wife would refer to as sweet (she loves glazed donuts and that is her definition of sweet)...and I've never tasted apricot, or caramel, or dark chocolate...great espresso tastes like...well kind of like...really intense and great coffee!!

Better taste began the day...
...I just finally turned loose of all those flowery descriptions people posted and just went for what tasted ''WOW'' to me. I quit looking for rosewater chocolååte, jasminia, hint of cinatropia or strawberrishcarmelishious...

I just started closing my eyes and enjoying the coffee...my mind and palate don't think in terms of much beyond bitter or sour (to know which way to adjust the ritual). Beyond that, I just relax and enjoy my coffee...

For me, the best shots are a combination of factors, number one being the beans/blend. Bad beans, bad shots, too fresh beans effervescent kind of raw shots, and properly roasted and well rested beans - awesome shots.

Next is properly heated HX machine surfed to proper temperature...I experimented till I figured out how to get that pretty close and repeatable (I usually build/consume 3 doubles at a time)...

Last, good grinding/tamp ritual. When it comes together, it's kind of magical...no it is magical (no kinda' about it).

And I've discovered that others like my coffee too...and I don't even suggest the hint-o-almondish-cocoa or blackberry syrups to them...I just hand them a double and challenge them to man-up and try it...the looks after they taste a great pull are worth it!

All this to say, I'm not sure I'm pulling 'sweet' shots but I am pulling some really sweet shots...

Hope this is even relative to the discussion...

You should try Klatch's Belle espresso for a nice, chocolatey shot. Barefoot's The Boss and Element blends are also rather sweet and chocolatey. However, none of these are truly "sweet" in the sense of being like a Snickers bar or Milky Way. They're more like very dark chocolate with just a bit of sweetness to cut the intensity of the cocoa. Adding a dollop of well frothed microfoam will give the shots a real sweetness, if that's what you're after.

TrlstanC wrote:I don't know if it's just a personal preference thing, but I've never had a shot of espresso that was both really good, and really sweet.

Personally if I want a shot that's got some sweetness in it, I'll just add a touch of sugar

I couldn't agree more. I don't understand all this obsession with sweetness. The best espressos I have had all had a slight touch of bitterness and like Trlstan I just add a touch of sugar when I feel I want it. I also had a lot of espressos that were better without sugar (that sought sweetness...) but they were not the best in my opinion.
As for taste it is relatively easy to obtain chocolaty or caramel flavours. But I have had some Ethiopians that had a very pronounced flower aroma that I found lovely and that happened very, very rarely...
By the way the best shot I had was a Jamaican Blue Mountain. Strong and complex but I wouldn't have called it exactly sweet...